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Thread: Wing Chun Short Pole Forms

  1. #1

    Wing Chun Short Pole Forms

    Hello,

    A few days ago my association released a clip of the first bit of Hung Fa Yi's Lung Fu Hung Mun Saat Kwun (Dragon and Tiger Red Gate Killing Pole) which is our short pole fighting form.

    Video: http://youtu.be/UtBksxxEW6Y

    A little bit of research has come up with some other wing chun styles that have it as well:

    Video of Sum Nung's line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJadrTsQZCo
    Reference to it in Gulo WC: http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...GaSupYeeSanSik

    And I'm pretty sure I'd seen a video years ago of someone from Chan Yiu Min's line doing a short pole form as well.

    Are there any other WC lines that have a short pole form?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    Are there any other WC lines that have a short pole form?
    My only issue here is the word 'form'. My own Sifu and his before him specialized in Wing Chun stick and pole plays and they were both very reluctant to call what they taught a form because for the majority of the time students were expected to learn sets they can drill, like an exercise, prior to receiving the full form. These sets could change daily.

    This was done, in a way, to protect the actual form because it was considered to be very special indeed. Each set was very specific in detail and purpose, and each set had to have it's interactive counterpart, either with another stick/pole, rattan ring/s or knives.

    So, from looking at your clips I can clearly see the intention and where it fits within our Six Point and Half Pole 'Form', but I view it as just one set. We also have 'Saat Gwun' drills but have to say they look a little different.

    One thing I do like about the HFY guys is the use of Wong Fei Hung music!! Now, I don't know exactly why it was but my own Sifu was very happy to teach and train us all with this playing in the background and we always used it in demonstrations. I have always though it highlights our connection to the older southern systems, and maybe specifically Hung Kuen.

    I can say with confidence that this is the root of our pole methods, but I dare not speak or everyone else here!
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  3. #3
    Hey LoneTiger108,

    I hear you, in the Hung Fa Yi lineage, we generally call those drilling sets "Siu Lein Tao" (Little Drilling). Usually prefaced with some kind of category denominator (ie: "Saap Ming Dim Siu Lein Tao" or "Keun Jong Siu Lein Tao Dip Gwat Gung").

    For many the breaking point of one versus the other is if the form contains the syllabus for the technology it's teaching, whereas drilling sets may only contain a part. That's where we tend to draw the line at least.

    I'd have trouble seeing what was shown in the above clips fitting into the 6.5 pole (as i learned it in the yip man lineage, haven't done any HFY pole yet) because it uses both ends of the weapon whereas 6.5 does not. Or does your Luk Dim Buhn Kwun have those kind of things too?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    I'd have trouble seeing what was shown in the above clips fitting into the 6.5 pole (as i learned it in the yip man lineage, haven't done any HFY pole yet) because it uses both ends of the weapon whereas 6.5 does not. Or does your Luk Dim Buhn Kwun have those kind of things too?
    Yeah. My Sigungs pole and weaponry practises are not the same as the younger generations from Ip Man. Not toally alien with regards to form understandings and stuff, but mainly in the way we train.

    Notice I refer to our pole (as always) as Six Point and Half Pole. This is because we train six points and the half pole! Half pole being similar to the Sum Nung drill actually, but it is embedded in a 'form' that our family has still never really shown publically. Our 6th point is quite similar to the HFY clip here.

    I could go on and on about weaponry because that is my personal favourite of everything I have done over the years, but I have never really found any discussion here to be fruitful becaue there seems to be too many people who say this and that but it is clearly evident from their movement that the Wing Chun weaponry I know and love is actually absent from most peoples learning. Not everyones, but a hell of a lot I see unfortunately. And that may just be due to my own warped understanding of the art, so no offence to anyone who thinks they are a weaponry Don lol!
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Yeah. My Sigungs pole and weaponry practises are not the same as the younger generations from Ip Man. Not toally alien with regards to form understandings and stuff, but mainly in the way we train.
    Hey Lonetiger,

    Interesting, I'd be curious, you also have posted a lot on the different cultural stuff having to do with wing chun - does your pole work have any specific opening signature? Most southern systems start with the pole held on the side, then some of them have a form of imagery in the bow/opening before the form begins.

    For us you can see the Dragon/Tiger bow (claw and fist), the flip up and catch of the stick symbolizing both animals leaving the temple and then holding the stick like it was incense before the first saat gwan move. It spells out "Lung Fu Hung Mun Saat Kwun"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    Hey Lonetiger,

    Interesting, I'd be curious, you also have posted a lot on the different cultural stuff having to do with wing chun - does your pole work have any specific opening signature?.
    Yes we have a salutation at the beginning similar to the one you describe actually
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  7. #7
    A friend pointed me to this one from Chan Wa Shun (pole form begins 1/2 way through)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNJvIhiW8U

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    A friend pointed me to this one from Chan Wa Shun (pole form begins 1/2 way through)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNJvIhiW8U
    Now that's a seriously long form! Great but long! My six point half pole is much shorter but looks like it contains many of the same plays. Very interesting to look into
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

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