Experience

[thedreamer7]

he looks the best for me

Yep, you can't go wrong Sifu Leo.
Also this place is worth a look in London, http://www.ninobernardo.com/warehouse.html

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

[hansolo]

ok then... thanks.... austin goh uses sashes....is this bad?

[LFJ]

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

Sifu David Peterson had a grading structure for his school in Melbourne for very practical reasons, mainly to ensure students didn't miss any important material on their way to becoming proficient. It wasn't about money, as he only charged like $20 for each level, and nothing for instructor levels, because at that point a Sifu should be giving back to the student for being there so long.

If you avoided his school simply because it had a grading system in place, you'd be missing some really quality training, perhaps in exchange for mediocre training elsewhere.

Although I'd generally agree with you, it's always best to just try out each option. One trial class will provide plenty of information and not teach you any bad habits if the place is bogus.

[LoneTiger108]

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

And you know this how exactly?

What a Sifu does to monitor his students progression, and ultimately inspire the younger memebers of the class (like children under 16yrs) is completely up to them.

FWIW A formal assessment and grading structure was in oplace with Ip Man himself in his early years in Fatshan. And from all accounts, Ng Jung So had levels and stages in his curriculums too which were monitored with different colours.

I had a traditional Sifu too who monitored such things, but the colours were used to identify a students 'purpose' more than his grade. Just my experience.

[thedreamer7]

And you know this how exactly?

What a Sifu does to monitor his students progression, and ultimately inspire the younger memebers of the class (like children under 16yrs) is completely up to them.

FWIW A formal assessment and grading structure was in oplace with Ip Man himself in his early years in Fatshan. And from all accounts, Ng Jung So had levels and stages in his curriculums too which were monitored with different colours.

I had a traditional Sifu too who monitored such things, but the colours were used to identify a students 'purpose' more than his grade. Just my experience.

I have trained in Ip Chun's school in Hong Kong and trained at other martial arts schools across China. From what I have seen I have seen, I never seen belts, gradings or secrets. I have only seen these in West (apart from VT (Leung Ting stuff)). So its IMHO to avoid schools with these if your looking for something non-commercial.

I state this in this forum post, because the original post asked for non-commercial schools and adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

[LoneTiger108]

I have trained in Ip Chun's school in Hong Kong and trained at other martial arts schools across China. From what I have seen I have seen, I never seen belts, gradings or secrets.

First off, do you mean you spent time training in these schools, like months/years, or you trained in a seminar there or something? And on the secret front, why would you have 'seen' anything secret, if it's a secret??!! As far as I'm aware, Ip Chun and his international representatives all have a grading structure of sorts.

I state this in this forum post, because the original post asked for non-commercial schools and adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

Ah! I get where you're coming from now. Non commercial Sifu do tend to train in jeans too, but personally I wouldn't recommend that either.

The bottom line is it really shouldn't matter if there are sashes/gradings or no such thing, Wing Chun is a personal system that requires a bit of a personal relationship with the coach/instructor/Sifu so make your choice on that.

[thedreamer7]

First off, do you mean you spent time training in these schools, like months/years, or you trained in a seminar there or something? And on the secret front, why would you have 'seen' anything secret, if it's a secret??!! As far as I'm aware, Ip Chun and his international representatives all have a grading structure of sorts.

I have spent months at these places. I saw no belts at Ip Chun's school or in any place in China. IMHO the secret in martial arts is repetition and hard work. I my experience there are no secrets in martial arts, just people selling them.

[LoneTiger108]

IMHO the secret in martial arts is repetition and hard work. I my experience there are no secrets in martial arts, just people selling them.

I agree with you here 100%

But as for selling secrets... how is this possible if it's a secret? You mean, selling an exposed secret lol??!!

[thedreamer7]

But as for selling secrets... how is this possible if it's a secret? You mean, selling an exposed secret lol??!!

Do a simple search on google and you will be entertained.

[LoneTiger108]

Do a simple search on google and you will be entertained.

I really haven't got the time anymore! It must be so confusing for any newcomers

[LFJ]

adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

I don't think you can say that fairly. You may be put off by colored belts and grading systems because of what they mean at typical commercial martial arts schools wherever you're from, but it's not necessarily always the case. It's not an accurate or fair assessment of a school to assume things simply based on their use of a grading system (like they aren't good sifu or doing it only for commercialism).

As mentioned, a grading system may be in place to ensure students aren't missing any important material or details on their way to becoming proficient. My reference to Sifu David Peterson was a good example. Not many would argue the depth of his knowledge or quality of his instruction. If you blindly walk away from high quality training because you don't like wearing colored belts or having levels of gradation, then you're looking for a fantasy gung-fu experience at the most "traditional" feeling place to you and not real training.

If you're really looking for quality training, it's always best to take a trial class and see what they are really about.

[hansolo]

your right.. it is very confusing ... although.... just to add in...sifu leo au yeing also does gradings...http://www.leowingchun.com/2009/06/grading.html

[thedreamer7]

I don't think you can say that fairly. You may be put off by colored belts and grading systems because of what they mean at typical commercial martial arts schools wherever you're from, but it's not necessarily always the case. It's not an accurate or fair assessment of a school to assume things simply based on their use of a grading system (like they aren't good sifu or doing it only for commercialism).

As mentioned, a grading system may be in place to ensure students aren't missing any important material or details on their way to becoming proficient. My reference to Sifu David Peterson was a good example. Not many would argue the depth of his knowledge or quality of his instruction. If you blindly walk away from high quality training because you don't like wearing colored belts or having levels of gradation, then you're looking for a fantasy gung-fu experience at the most "traditional" feeling place to you and not real training.

If you're really looking for quality training, it's always best to take a trial class and see what they are really about.

Fair point the Sifu could still be good. However that doesn't stop this being a form of commercialism and the original post asked for non-commercial schools.

[couch]

your right.. it is very confusing ... although.... just to add in...sifu leo au yeing also does gradings...http://www.leowingchun.com/2009/06/grading.html

Be careful, a lot of folks on forums have, even unbeknownst to them, ulterior motives when they respond.

Folks enjoy being part of a 'system,' lineage and 'family.' Therefore they have emotional ties with their responses.

Check out each school and then make an informed decision. Also, keep in mind your reasons for training and what you hope to get out of it. It would be very easy for you to ask someone if they teach sparring and for them to say yes or dismiss sparring as 'not real self-defense training.' Also, it would be very easy for someone to tell you that you'll spar and then play patty-cake drills for years with you. So don't be afraid to jump ship if after a while it's not heading where you want.

And sometimes you don't know what you like until you've discovered what you don't like.

[hansolo]

Thanks everyone...I am going to try out everybody. leo au yeung is my first trial