What does "internal" mean to you?

[YouKnowWho]

internal practice is not unique to taichi or ba gua alone.

When my longfist teacher taught sword form in south Afraic, he mentioned, "No Qi, not enough Qi, don't use Li". "Internal" exists in all TCMA styles. Most people just don't talk about it.

http://www.filmy.cvwp.info/movie.php?id=mMdf07n8Mh8

[Mike Patterson]

Hold on, was a challenge just issued in this thread or did I read that wrong?

Even if Mike Patterson beats up bawang, does that prove anything?

I just wanna see some IMA skills that can't be explained away by physics (like breaking the bottom brick) or by physical conditioning (like sledgehammers to the stomach where the recipient is flexing every muscle in his body), by physics (like when they break the pole over the guy's back well behind its center of gravity), or by sleight of hand (like breaking the brick on the edge of the step and lifting it slightly at the last second) and saying it's because of their magic qi powers.

I didn't know people were gonna fight

And even if an external MA guy wins, that doesn't mean IMA isn't real, it just means the external guy was a better fighter on that day.

This stuff should take place in a lab.

Hope this doesn't deteriorate into "if I can beat u up it means I'm right" type of ego nonsense.

Cuz that would be like taking weight lifting advice from a guy simply cuz he's a big bodybuilder and therefore he must be an expert on training.

Or like taking diet advice from someone with visible abs because they are ripped therefore must be nutrition experts.

Predictable.

Bawang made a statement that Xingyi is no longer viable in a modern context as a combat art. And you seemed to agree with him, Ironfist.

Well, I have proven in the past that it is indeed and can be adapted to competitive rule sets. So, obviously I strongly disagree with that perspective and stated that I am willing at any time to entertain such perspectives in person. If you wish to take that as a "challenge" then so be it.

Practioners such as myself do not, and never have made, such claims as you continually delineate ad nauseum. Legit practitioners do not appreciate the inference that we are ALL like that. So it might be nice if people like yourself would quantify your statements and not make them so all inclusive.

It's not an all or none kind of a thing, Ironfist. There are frauds in every aspect of M.A. Your notion of what "internal" is or is not does not concern me. But statements that say what I do and have done is not combat viable do indeed concern me as that is tantamount to calling me and every other legit practitoner a fraud as well. Get it?

You seem to be hung up on the word "internal". For me, it is just a name. What I do is called Xingyi or Bagua or Taiji. These are martial arts first and foremost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply missing the point, IMHO of course.

Now it's back to what I do best.. 'cause lord knows THIS is NOT it!

[Robinhood]

Hold on, was a challenge just issued in this thread or did I read that wrong?

Even if Mike Patterson beats up bawang, does that prove anything?

I just wanna see some IMA skills that can't be explained away by physics (like breaking the bottom brick) or by physical conditioning (like sledgehammers to the stomach where the recipient is flexing every muscle in his body), by physics (like when they break the pole over the guy's back well behind its center of gravity), or by sleight of hand (like breaking the brick on the edge of the step and lifting it slightly at the last second) and saying it's because of their magic qi powers.

I didn't know people were gonna fight

And even if an external MA guy wins, that doesn't mean IMA isn't real, it just means the external guy was a better fighter on that day.

This stuff should take place in a lab.

Hope this doesn't deteriorate into "if I can beat u up it means I'm right" type of ego nonsense.

Cuz that would be like taking weight lifting advice from a guy simply cuz he's a big bodybuilder and therefore he must be an expert on training.

Or like taking diet advice from someone with visible abs because they are ripped therefore must be nutrition experts.

Beating each other is an external MA mentality, internal level people don't need to bang each other up to know who has superior abilities.

That being said an internal guy would usually have to bang an external guy up, because that is all they understand unless they have a high level of sensitivity .


Cheers

[Robinhood]

When my longfist teacher taught sword form in south Afraic, he mentioned, "No Qi, not enough Qi, don't use Li". "Internal" exists in all TCMA styles. Most people just don't talk about it.

http://www.filmy.cvwp.info/movie.php?id=mMdf07n8Mh8

It exists in all people, whether you can develop it and use it is the challenge.



Cheers

[YouKnowWho]

It exists in all people, whether you can develop it and use it is the challenge.



Cheers

So in my longfist teacher's clip, what does "No Qi, not enough Qi, don't use Li" mean to you?

[IronFist]

Predictable.

Ok.

Bawang made a statement that Xingyi is no longer viable in a modern context as a combat art. And you seemed to agree with him, Ironfist.

Bawang said complicated bridging is useless in fighting, and I agreed with that. In my experience, bridging is a great concept but it breaks down against a resisting opponent. Maybe your experience differs. I'd be interested to see someone use bridging against a trained fighter.

Regarding the number of jabs and crosses and stuff, I have no idea.

Practioners such as myself do not, and never have made, such claims as you continually delineate ad nauseum. Legit practitioners do not appreciate the inference that we are ALL like that. So it might be nice if people like yourself would quantify your statements and not make them so all inclusive.

I never said all IMA guys are frauds.

I said the ones attributing their powers to mystical qi energy are.

If someone goes up on stage and takes a sledgehammer to the stomach and says it's a result of training hard and stuff, that's fine. And I think that's awesome, and definitely something to be proud of and something to admire. After all, I don't know too many people who can take a sledgehammer to the stomach.

If someone goes up on stage and takes a sledgehammer to the stomach and says it's because they moved their qi to their dan tien to protect themselves, that's different And that is the type of claim that would need to be validated because come on, they're talking about mystical energy.

I have no idea if YOU do that. I don't know who you are, although your name sounds familiar.

It's not an all or none kind of a thing, Ironfist. There are frauds in every aspect of M.A. Your notion of what "internal" is or is not does not concern me. But statements that say what I do and have done is not combat viable do indeed concern me as that is tantamount to calling me and every other legit practitoner a fraud as well. Get it?

I'm not sure where I said what you do isn't combat viable, unless you're talking about me agreeing with bawang. As far as I know, you're not one of those qi blast guys...

You seem to be hung up on the word "internal". For me, it is just a name. What I do is called Xingyi or Bagua or Taiji. These are martial arts first and foremost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply missing the point, IMHO of course.

What makes something "internal" to you in a martial context? That was the purpose of this thread anyway.

[Robinhood]

So in my longfist teacher's clip, what does "No Qi, not enough Qi, don't use Li" mean to you?

They all mean the same thing, he is just trying to get the guy to use his internal. But he is not able too, way to much tension in his whole body.



Cheers

[YouKnowWho]

I'd be interested to see someone use bridging against a trained fighter.

No bridging = no grappling

An octopus has to wrap it's prey before comsume it. If we look at combat from just a "striker" point of view, we may not be able to see the whole picture from all different angles.

The fast hand wrestling spirit is, "the moment that you touch, the moment that you throw." You still have to touch first, that's bridging.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9...uswrapprey.jpg

[YouKnowWho]

he is just trying to get the guy to use his internal. But he is not able too, way to much tension in his whole body.

That's exactly my point. Whether someone can "use internal" or he has "too much tension in his body" can both be seen, which contradict to your assumption that "internal" cannot be seen and can only be felt.

I guess you can't see the internal at work, ...

[Mike Patterson]

Bawang said complicated bridging is useless in fighting, and I agreed with that. In my experience, bridging is a great concept but it breaks down against a resisting opponent. Maybe your experience differs. I'd be interested to see someone use bridging against a trained fighter.

It is abundantly clear that you and me do not even speak the same language. "Bridging" or to "cross the bridge" is simply going from a point of non-enggagment to engagement in my lingo. There are numerous ways to accomplish this and numerous subdivisions of principles/theories/strategies to achieve same. To say what you said simply does not compute to someone like me. Such a statement belies a still developing sense of combat.

I have no idea if YOU do that. I don't know who you are, although your name sounds familiar.

What makes something "internal" to you in a martial context? That was the purpose of this thread anyway.

Oh, well then permit me to introduce myself:

My website - http://www.hsing-i.com/
Everything I believe "internal" martial arts to be can be found here. I spent a great deal of time writing all of that. I'm not going to write it again here.

My Bio - http://www.hsing-i.com/shrfu_bio/index.html

My Youtube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/mrmikepa...e=results_main
Many of my fighter's full fight clips can be found here, "bridging" strategies included (just started uploading those a couple months back, more are coming when I have time), as well as dozens of clips from instructional DVD's I produce.

If, after looking at all this, my perspectives are not clear on what is and is not "internal", then feel free to question further.

[Robinhood]

That's exactly my point. Whether someone can "use internal" or he has "too much tension in his body" can both be seen, which contradict to your assumption that "internal" cannot be seen and can only be felt.

I can see if the condition are right, and I can see his intention, but if he is still it is a lot harder to see.

If you have it, you can see it in others. It goes with that saying "know yourself and you will know others".

But just because someone does not have tension does not mean chi is flowing. It is just one of the conditions that needs to be for chi to flow.

Well have to hit the city, to do some chi playing.

See ya

[taai gihk yahn]

[

PS I've challenged Bawang to a duel myself, he fights like a girl. Here is one of his training clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr2nVh0XG4w

r u serious, or just kidding? bec that's not bawang, that's actually Uki (for real, seriously)

I pay very little attention to people like Robinhood simply because he makes generalized statements with no substantiation.

you mean like:

Beating each other is an external MA mentality, internal level people don't need to bang each other up to know who has superior abilities.

That being said an internal guy would usually have to bang an external guy up, because that is all they understand unless they have a high level of sensitivity .

yeah, that's usually how it goes down...

[Dragonzbane76]

Took a break from here, come back scan through some posts and still the same ****.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I will be teaching for the rest of the day without break, and I'm quite sure this will end the way it always does anyways, so it's been fun.

Sanjuro, the reason I speak up when I see such things written is that I have always believed reticence to be equivalent to agreement. Once such garbage goes into the net, it's permanent. I simply don't want the voice of ignorance to be the only voice out there.

Kind Regards to all who truly do care about the state of martial arts in general. For this is where my head lies as well.

You know that I have the upmost respect for you Shifu, you and your students walk the walk.
I respect and admire how you come to the defense of your beloved Hsing-i and yes, you and your students are some of the few out there that ARE doing the MARTIAL art of Hsing-i.
The sad truth Shifu is that this "tired old dog" will not die because for every "Fighting Shifu" there are dozens of "non-fighting qi-fus".

[bawang]

why do you kiss his ass so much when none of you guys gave david ross any respect?

david ross students actually fight good. they are fighters. and ross is a great trainer. this guy is a stick with wobbly legs and fought horribly in some obscure kung fu tournament 10 years ago. he also teaches suicidial nonsense apps just like any other qi blaster.