What does "internal" mean to you?

[SPJ]

Xing yi staff/stick used by police in China, Taiwan and Singapore.

Xing yi broad sword and Xing yi bayonet are still used by China and Taiwan Army and marine.

Ba Gua Qin Na are still used by China and Taiwan police and special forces.

They are 6 months training and no talk about Qi.

But for general public that are interested in health.

They practice Tai chee and Ba Gua for health and qi gong.

Nothing wrong for either party.

etc etc

In fact, Tai Chi especially from Yang Chen Fu in late 1920s was designed as an exercise for general public.

In short, there are more people doing tai chee and ba gua for health.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWG6eglkLa8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lO-p...eature=related

[sanjuro_ronin]

why do you kiss his ass so much when none of you guys gave david ross any respect?

david ross students actually fight good. they are fighters. and ross is a great trainer. this guy is a stick with wobbly legs and fought horribly in some obscure kung fu tournament 10 years ago. he also teaches suicidial nonsense apps just like any other qi blaster.

LMAO,
Play nice

Dave had the respect (and has) of all those here that have actually fought and that is the only respect Dave " wants".
Yes, Dave's students do fight regularly and typically ( because they go outside of "kung fu competitions") they fight a high caliber of opponents.
That said, the point that Shifu Patterson is making is that Hsing-i Can work in the competitive environment and they are proof of that.
So the real question is, why don't OTHERS in IMA do the same thing?
And no, the silliness of "IMA don't compete or fight" is BS because THAT is what Hsing-i, Taiji and Bagua were developed for and that is fighting.

[David Jamieson]

So the real question is, why don't OTHERS in IMA do the same thing?

This gets back to that misinterpretation of IMA to mean: 'a complicated and elaborate system of excuses for why you should think the pot bellied dude with breathing problems and a bad attitude should be considered a master of something"...

[SPJ]

off topic a bit and place everything in perspective.

modern warfare is about firepower and armor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAsWg...eature=related

use of open hand and xing yi dao.

only as last resort or close combat.

if you survive all the firepower and armor that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKICDsV2HU

[bawang]

That said, the point that Shifu Patterson is making is that Hsing-i Can work in the competitive environment and they are proof of that.

he teaches complicated useless "classical applications" in his dvds then proves his prowess by 10 year old videos of his students kickboxing badly. what is so original, so amazing, that he deserves so much respect? that you are calling him shifu, your second father?

why did blacktaoist, ray pina, maoshan get rediculed when this guy gets so much respect? because they all went ourside their internal bubble and were brave enough to fight real fighters, and failed. this guy plays it safe and retains his false persona of an internal badass. he is scum to me.


brendan tunks mantis student is fighting in thailand. i give that guy the respect he deserves. i respect ray even though he acted like a jakass. i respect maoshan for being brave and trying. i respect shawn obasi. dan hawley. sami berik.

[IronFist]

why did blacktaoist, ray pina, maoshan get rediculed

Wait, some of those names sound familiar.

Is blacktaoist a Bagua guy who posted a vid of him fighting a Muay Thai guy from another forum, or am I thinking of someone else?

Regardless, mad respect for any IMA or TMA guys who get in the ring with MMA and other trained fighters. That's what martial development is about; improving your ability against resisting opponents.

Why would someone be ridiculed for that? It's better to test your art in the ring than in the street.


(unless your art is too deadly for the ring )

[sanjuro_ronin]

he teaches complicated useless "classical applications" in his dvds then proves his prowess by 10 year old videos of his students kickboxing badly. what is so original, so amazing, that he deserves so much respect? that you are calling him shifu, your second father?

why did blacktaoist, ray pina, maoshan get rediculed when this guy gets so much respect? because they all went ourside their internal bubble and were brave enough to fight real fighters, and failed. this guy plays it safe and retains his false persona of an internal badass. he is scum to me.


brendan tunks mantis student is fighting in thailand. i give that guy the respect he deserves. i respect ray even though he acted like a jakass. i respect maoshan for being brave and trying. i respect shawn obasi. dan hawley. sami berik.

Tell me how you really feel, LOL !

[David Jamieson]

Black Taoist picked up ridicule for hyping fights that never happened. He also does some good things, but mostly a lot of trash talk youtube videos threatening people with the deadly etc. NO fights to date, not even ten year old crappy kick boxing events.... BUt, maybe, someday he'll come through.

Ray Pina got ridiculed because he was suffering from a cognative dissonance issue where he project the subject out, repeated it back and insulted everyone and anyone who said anything at all concerning the value of Kung Fu practice. This had a lot to do with him having a really poor attitude and miserable communication skills that painted him as a belligerent jerk off. When it finally got revealed that he was spending his time growing a beer belly and beating up young teenagers in some attempt to martially redeem himself...well, that was that.

Maoshan? He talked a HUGE amount of trash before that fight, got beaten and deserved the ridicule. I don't think he has to endure much of that anymore as he's toned down.

The whole thing boils down to ego. Too much = you are a jerk and you deserve to be knocked down a notch.


Mike Patterson, is at least consistent, will put up or shut up and does continue to do so.

Bawang, you are a racist jerk on many levels. I think it was at one time kind of a funny thing, but your comments that you correct yourself on are always disparaging and racially charged comments about white people and ridiculing of them. I think that is likely the source of your problem with Patterson and his persona. One comment or two? hahahaha. dozens and always thematically similar? yeah...that says something about you whether you like it or not.

Maybe you don't like the fact that one of the best internal martial arts instructors in the world isn't a Chinese guy, but it's ...dang, it's that honky dude Patterson!

Anyway, just my point of view.

[GeneChing]

Here's our Black Taoist Update thread, launched by Ray Pina last year.

[wenshu]

Ray Pina got ridiculed because he was suffering from a cognative dissonance issue where he project the subject out, repeated it back and insulted everyone and anyone who said anything at all concerning the value of Kung Fu practice. This had a lot to do with him having a really poor attitude and miserable communication skills that painted him as a belligerent jerk off. When it finally got revealed that he was spending his time growing a beer belly and beating up young teenagers in some attempt to martially redeem himself...well, that was that.

Troll quality has definitely suffered under your tenure.

I kinda like Ray.

At least his solipsistic worldview and overcompensating ego trolling was entertaining. What it lacked in insight it made up for in bombast.

Can't even begin to say the same thing for Ironfist's.

[Robinhood]

Just because a style is supposed to be internal, does not mean they are doing internal or even practicing correctly to develop internal, usually they don't even know that the internal was lost generation's ago.

Its the practitioner that makes it internal not the style.


Cheers

[IronFist]

Who was the bagua guy who fought the MT guy? I saw a vid of that that was posted on bullshido, I think. The MT guy won but at least the bagua guy was applying his training against resisting opponents and credit is due for that. I'm sure he learned more on that day than in his entire years of bagua training prior.

edit - apparently it was Maoshan. Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4ls7SAbN24

Had he won, think of the publicity both for himself and for Bagua!

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt

I also think it's funny when internet tough guys on the forums want to fight the person making the post. Wouldn't it make more sense to show your art's superiority against a trained fighter? Beating an untrained skinny noob who says Wing Chun doesn't work against MMA won't prove anything.

Winning an MMA tournament with Wing Chun would prove something, and would surely get you all the e-cred you want.

(I like WC, I'm just using it as an example here. Replace it with whatever style you want and the example is still valid)

[Mike Patterson]

Form.. is not fighting. And fighting is not form. Form is training. It encompasses theory, mechanics, strategies, ideas. Those who equate the two do not understand fighting.

Fighting is fighting and it is never pretty. It is either effective or it is not. You study your system, whatever that may be. You learn about strategy and tactics, you hone your skill sets and then you either go out and execute properly and win. Or you don't, and you lose. For there is also always an element of luck in true fighting. And what figting "looks like" is, as others have already pointed out, is largely dictated by the rule set. If you look closely enough, there will be elements of the style behind the fighter. But you have to have high enough eyes to see such things.

The problem is.. most martial artist no longer fight. They only talk about fighting and they do that from a point that is solely based on theory. People like Bawang have never been on a platform, or in a cage, or in the street for that matter. So they endlessly fillibuster about nothing. Same thing goes for Robinhood. Ironfist doesn't even seem to understand what "bridging" is all about so he is clearly still a work in progress.

But it's okay. People are starting to understand these things once again.

And yes, Sanjuro, I will continue to defend and promote my beloved Xingyi for I believe it to be relevant still. And yes David, I, like you, am consistent and I think that matters.

Bawang.. still waiting for that PM, which oc will never come. It's always safest behind a Keyboard, eh?

[IronFist]

Ironfist doesn't even seem to understand what "bridging" is all about so he is clearly still a work in progress.

Bridging is when your forearms are touching. It's what happens in the process of "trapping."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmNh0DiuuUs

It's intentionally establishing contact with your opponents arms to do things like "feel your opponents intentions" and other chi sao type stuff. And I still agree with bawang that it doesn't really have a purpose in real fighting.

That seems to be the generally accepted definition of "bridging" in TCMA.

Unless you're talking about the wrestling technique:



If you refer to something else as "bridging," it's not my fault for not knowing it.