What does "internal" mean to you?

[LivingArt]

I voted having to do with qi, but my definition of qi is different. To me qi is your state of being, and isn't mystical in any sense. Its the stress your under, and how you deal with it. Its the blood running through you, and the quality of the sources of nutrition you receive. Its the meridians, and your nerve pathways. And exerting your qi is also proper body alignment, proper force, proper speed, and proper state of mind. But whats proper is completely subjective to you, and cultivating good qi is being in balance with and understanding the self.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Strongly disagree. There is no "internal" aspect of bench pressing. It uses a proper form and breath control, but since there is no qi component, there is no internal aspect. IMO, of course.

So in your opinion, what is the distinction between "internal" and "external" martial arts? If proper form and breathing is all it takes to make something "internal," then in Western boxing internal? What about shotokan karate, or savate?

And, would you then argue that Taiji, Bagua, and HsingYi are no more "internal" than Wing Chun or Western boxing? After all, both have specific form and breathing techniques.

Well, I cannot speak for all these other systems, but I know that karate and jiujitsu are also dependent upon Qi. If you think about it some more, the weight lifting I mean. You can bench press a weight without using your breath or breathing simply by using the mechanics of your physical body. However, by doing it proper as you call it, by using breathing and proper form you can lift more. The chi is actually the sound you make when you put forth the volumn of your effort at a particular instant. The proper alignment and the short burst of power you generate with the Chi is the internal aspect of the bench press. Sort of like when you strike a brick or board. You exhale and make your little chi as you make contact, which then focuses your internal energy into your efforts.
I have a hell of a time explaining myself here, but it is not like internal is another form of gung fu. It is not a form of gung fu at all. It is simply the way your ration your energies and strength to accomplish an effort. If you do a lot of weight lifting then you probably have good form and a very good ability to use your chi. Even if you are not aware of it or even if you do not believe in it. Most people cannot get past the thought of internal being some mythical concept when it is nothing more than proper form and breathing. The external part is simply the mechanics of what you do, while the internal is the energy that you fuel your effort with. You can indeed learn to do it far more efficiently, such as when you bench press a considerable weight.

[YouKnowWho]

There is no "internal" aspect of bench pressing.

I would love to see any "internal" guy who can prove that we all do our "bench pressing" or "hip throw" wrong.

I always want to see clips for

- "internal" bench press,
- "internal" weight pulling,
- "internal" roundhouse kick,
- "internal" hip throw,
- "internal" elbow lock,
- "internal" ground skill,

but so far I haven't seen any yet. Until the day when people put up such clip online, I won't be convinced that "internal' can have any value besides "punching" only.

[Dragonzbane76]

To me the grappling arts have a lot of "internal" impressions. I feel they have more than most stand up arts. Thats my opinion.

[Robinhood]

I would love to see any "internal" guy who can prove that we all do our "bench pressing" or "hip throw" wrong.

I always want to see clips for

- "internal" bench press,
- "internal" weight pulling,
- "internal" roundhouse kick,
- "internal" hip throw,
- "internal" elbow lock,
- "internal" ground skill,

but so far I haven't seen any yet. Until the day when people put up such clip online, I won't be convinced that "internal' can have any value besides "punching" only.

You can't see it, that is one of the reasons it is called "internal", you will be waiting a long time, don't hold your breath.


Cheers

[Darthlawyer]

Internal originally meant "from inside China.". External meant "from outside China.". Hence the taoist arts of tai chi, xing yi, and pa gua are internal, as opposed to the bhuddist arts of the shaolin temple.

[pazman]

taiji is derived from shaolin, bro.

[ginosifu]

This is internal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZXHgo2RRfE

ginosifu

[pazman]

You can't see it, that is one of the reasons it is called "internal", you will be waiting a long time, don't hold your breath.

There is a teapot in orbit around the sun, somewhere between the orbits of Earth and Mars. It's a fact, but there are many teapot deniers. They can't prove it's not there!

[taai gihk yahn]

This is internal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZXHgo2RRfE

ginosifu

no, that's called "magnet under table" or some other such trickery;

[pazman]

... or some other such trickery;

which happens to be a good description of what "internal" masters do when they try to sell their supposed amazing skills to gullible students.

[Eric Olson]

"Both structure and breath"

and what Tai Gik Yahn said

I don't know what a Qi is, never seen one.

EO

[SPJ]

1. structure or xing has both internal and external components

there are training regimes for both.

2. intent or yi is internal aspect.

chen tai ji first routine, we focus on peng lu ji an. we focus on training of intent or yi.

chen tai ji 2nd routine, we focus on cai lie zhou kao. we have to practice fast and faster and lots of external or li.

yi and li are inseparable.

we use just focus on training them alone or both.

in first routine, we may practice slowly.

in 2nd routine we may practice fast and faster.

3 Breath

there are preheaven and post heaven training and practice.

you may say pre heaven is internal

and post heaven is external

etc etc.

in short both structure and breath have training focuses of both internal and external.

[taai gihk yahn]

which happens to be a good description of what "internal" masters do when they try to sell their supposed amazing skills to gullible students.

the only skills that an "internal" master should reasonably sell are good overall health, a balanced demeanor and an attitude of equanimity towards life, good relationships with family and students, realistic healing skill if trained as such, and a quality of of movement that reflects their daily practice (this can include "pushing" skills if they are involved in that sort of pursuit);

no bells and whistles; in Tao-practice, the true person is undifferentiated, in that they are able to function equally in all things;

[Robinhood]

This is internal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZXHgo2RRfE

ginosifu

If he could pull the water out of the bowl without moving the bowl, that would be better. If he can do it, it is called "empty force",


Cheers