Chi-sao

[k gledhill]

A clip of some chi-sao work CLIP

[Vajramusti]

A clip of some chi-sao work CLIP

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Why the rocking and pushing?

joy chaudhuri

[Vajramusti]

Same guys different day, jut sao focus....CLIP

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Far different from the chi sao that I do.
That vid appears to show a considerable lack of structure
and balance. BTW good structure does NOT imply stiffness.
The two guys don't appear to be too stiff but there is hardly any structure or balance.
Before any one gets there dander up, I respect WSL.
I will leave it at that.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

That vid appears to show a considerable lack of structure and balance. BTW good structure does NOT imply stiffness.
The two guys don't appear to be too stiff but there is hardly any structure or balance.

Interesting comments Joy, seeing as the methods shown are very very common within the WSL lineage. I think the structure/balance inconsistency may be due to the 'rushed nature' of some of the advances, as the stepping seems a little basic too.

Basic drills tend to create these bad habits if they are trained for too long without progression. Hence, why I ask where they go from here?

[LoneTiger108]

Mind you, I still appreciate anyone sharing what they do like this... it's what we should all be doing to be honest.

More of a 'visual forum' would be much cooler

[k gledhill]

As much as I appreciate good PBWSL stuff, which this is, I can not openly lie here and say that's good chisau because from what I am looking at there was little chisau in the drill as it appears to be (what I call) looksau / rotating arm.

Rotating your kiusau on the forearms as you are doing, with the sunken chest and forward intent, is all looksau basics. Being within the contact range all the time has specific purposes too which you are demonstrating skillfully. It's just our language is offkey. The advancing sets you are teaching are specifically PBs /WSLs I would imagine as this is where we have more physical differences.

FWIW This specific drill was a sepciality my Sigung too. There is even footage of him practising like this, and taking it further, step by step into a full fluid interactive drill. We also demonstrated this specific idea at the weekend and the last time we did that (1997) a very well known Master asked my Sifu "what is that?!!" After a small conversation in cantonese the penny dropped

Like I said, it's great to see but I ask 'where does this go next?'

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Far different from the chi sao that I do.
That vid appears to show a considerable lack of structure
and balance. BTW good structure does NOT imply stiffness.
The two guys don't appear to be too stiff but there is hardly any structure or balance.
Before any one gets there dander up, I respect WSL.
I will leave it at that.

joy chaudhuri

Another ..... CLIP

[LoneTiger108]

Another ..... CLIP

Ah! A little more fluid and advanced which is good

Gworsau exchanges like shown are filled with individual personality, but these still look very like PB and WSL to me. Still good though as this is what I tend to see everywhere, in every lineage, when it gets down to more free sparring.

It's like the methods of Wing Chun are being used, but with the personality of an ancestor! Still better than chatting all day though...

[wingchunIan]

Interesting comments Joy, seeing as the methods shown are very very common within the WSL lineage. I think the structure/balance inconsistency may be due to the 'rushed nature' of some of the advances, as the stepping seems a little basic too.

Basic drills tend to create these bad habits if they are trained for too long without progression. Hence, why I ask where they go from here?

Hi Spencer, I disagree with you regarding the practice of basic drills (someone else posted something similar a while ago about wall bag practice). Without any reference to the clip, any basic drill that develops bad habits is a poor drill and should be discarded full stop. If a drill teaches or develops an attribute then that attribute should be valid and prolonged practice should simply make it sharper and better. I frequently enjoy going back over the most basic of drills. In Wing Chun as with most martial arts training IMHO is cyclic, folks strive to learn the hidden secrets and the advanced techniques and drills, always wanting more, moving on, leaving the basics behind. Normally in Japanese and Korean styles the enlightenment comes a few years after the first black belt and folks either leave dishillousioned or else realise that the true keys to any art are the very basics that they had been in such a rush to leave behind and go back and train them again but from an elightened position. IME this is a never ending circle in that the longer you train the more enlightened you become and the more the basic drills and techniques grow in importance.

[LoneTiger108]

Hi Spencer, I disagree with you regarding the practice of basic drills (someone else posted something similar a while ago about wall bag practice). Without any reference to the clip, any basic drill that develops bad habits is a poor drill and should be discarded full stop. If a drill teaches or develops an attribute then that attribute should be valid and prolonged practice should simply make it sharper and better.

You make a very good point Ian, but I was strictly talking about the later clip creating bad habits in their mobility which wouldn't really be an issue if there had been some further development of the drill and possibly more attention to their stepping and placement.

I still drill Tanda to this day and I know it has big benefits So I agree totally that we carry our basics with us forever. Wouldn't be Wing Chun otherwise IMHO

[LFJ]

A clip of some chi-sao work CLIP

Taan-bong-jam, taan-bong-jam, taan-bong-jam... I know somebody's favorite.

[k gledhill]

Taan-bong-jam, taan-bong-jam, taan-bong-jam... I know somebody's favorite.

aka , to us, hit defend hit, hit defend hit....

[LoneTiger108]

A clip of some chi-sao work CLIP

As much as I appreciate good PBWSL stuff, which this is, I can not openly lie here and say that's good chisau because from what I am looking at there was little chisau in the drill as it appears to be (what I call) looksau / rotating arm.

Rotating your kiusau on the forearms as you are doing, with the sunken chest and forward intent, is all looksau basics. Being within the contact range all the time has specific purposes too which you are demonstrating skillfully. It's just our language is offkey. The advancing sets you are teaching are specifically PBs /WSLs I would imagine as this is where we have more physical differences.

FWIW This specific drill was a sepciality my Sigung too. There is even footage of him practising like this, and taking it further, step by step into a full fluid interactive drill. We also demonstrated this specific idea at the weekend and the last time we did that (1997) a very well known Master asked my Sifu "what is that?!!" After a small conversation in cantonese the penny dropped

Like I said, it's great to see but I ask 'where does this go next?'

[Sihing73]

Okay guys, I have undeleted the thread.

All I ask is that you try to keep on topic regarding Chi Sau. .//

If you don't I will post a pic of me with no shirt on and you don't want that...................................trust me.