Chi-sao

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah tedious Frost...

Someone telling you to "put your money where your mouth is" is not trolling dude.
You wanna shut up Frost for good?
Show him a clip of a WC guy putting the beats on a trained thai boxer or MMA guy.
You'll notice he never gives Alan Orr and 'guff"....

[k gledhill]

Someone telling you to "put your money where your mouth is" is not trolling dude.
You wanna shut up Frost for good?
Show him a clip of a WC guy putting the beats on a trained thai boxer or MMA guy.
You'll notice he never gives Alan Orr and 'guff"....

I could care less about Frost, I am secure enough with my own abilities not to have to run out to the gym and try and knock a guy out so Frost likes me

[sanjuro_ronin]

I could care less about Frost, I am secure enough with my own abilities not to have to run out to the gym and try and knock a guy out so Frost likes me

You're no fun.

[Vajramusti]

Sanjuro used to do some Moy Yat wing chun, Frost does not do wing chun and KG used to do Victor Kan wc now is affiliated with PB-vt. I dont do and don't care to do what any of what the threesome currently do.No reflections on their choices which I imagine might work for them.

I am a long time wing chun person from a substantial line and am familiar with many grapple-rs and MT clinches though they are not the same .

Of course I could make a stupid mistake if I am not alert. But my wing chun is fairly internalized and spontaneous and can adjust to other folks working on a clinch or choke. We go round and round with the same issues which come in cycles.

I don't speak for other people's wing chun. I am comfortable playing my (wc based_ game) against others including non WC folks.

Knowing something about "Southern arts" is bot the same as understanding wing chun.

Cheers, joy chaudhuri

[WC1277]

and yet you cant resisit posting on the threads and implying you know something special and have access to the real chun

And who said i never did any wing chun not me....

And yet he and I and others come from a line that does a "chun" that as far as I know, none have been able to discredit 'physically' whom have "equivalent WC knowledge".....and I would be humble enough to state that someone has if I was aware of it...

And Frost, no, you haven't stated clearly if and whom you do WC with...

[Vajramusti]

and yet you cant resisit posting on the threads and implying you know something special and have access to the real chun

And who said i never did any wing chun not me....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannot resist posting? (Snide remark)Not quite true. I post sometimes when I think that a gross inaccuracy
about decent Ip Man wing chun shows up. Pride and loyalty to what one does and also some things that appear to be true are not necessarily bad virtues.

I have no illusions about changing Frost's opinions on wing chun- though I listen when he says something about grappling. sanjuro's questions are sometimes interesting and sometimes repetitious but fair..And I post also at times to possibly learn something that strikes my wc curiosity such as what the late Ng Chan did.Resulted ina nice exchange.I enjoyed David P's comments on WSL when he is quoted. And although my views on wing chun are different from Hendrik,, I have enjoyed some of his posts on snake and crane and also directions of vectors

I am interested in the details of a broad range of MAs and CMAs- but rarely is there much 0n the KFO forums

joy chaudhuri

[Ali. R]

I see nothing arrogant about Joy’s replies, just take him at face value and you can’t go wrong with what he says, and to disregard him in that way you would only be losing out.

That’s a d@mn shame; you guys don’t have a clue on what you have here on this form, sad, very sad…

[Frost]

And yet he and I and others come from a line that does a "chun" that as far as I know, none have been able to discredit 'physically' whom have "equivalent WC knowledge".....and I would be humble enough to state that someone has if I was aware of it...

And Frost, no, you haven't stated clearly if and whom you do WC with...

Nope I have stated if I do wing chun, if I have ever done wing chun, but does it really matter?

I could have done it for 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years or 20 years the response would probably be the same,
Wing chun spread wide and far and very uneven, only a few got the real deal from yip man, the inference here is of course, (buy whomever is saying it be it Joy or Kevin or spenser ir any number of other people) that my teacher did get the real wing chun yours didn’t so it doesn’t matter how long you trained and with whom because you dont get it
(this kind of talk by Kevin is the thing that drew me to this wing chun forum and made me post in the first place lol so blame him)
The funny thing is everyone who says this seems to have found the real deal in terms of teachers: amazing that so few actually got yip mans skills yet so many seem to have been trained by those few

Having said that I’d like to apologise to Joy, whatever I feel about his writing style he is entitled to his opinion and its his style we are talking about not mine so sniping is uncalled for. Sorry Joy

But it still comes down to this, there are no clips from anyone showing their version of special wing chun in action against a real opponent, we get demos like at the martial arts expo Spencer went to, we get chi sao demos and lots of talk about scientific this and that but nothing to show it in use, that is all im asking for, if you care so much about wing chun that you spend hours talking about it why not simply post a clip of what you mean, not a compliant clip, but a real hard sparring clip (phil has done this and it was good to see some of the stuff he talked about in action) if you don’t care and couldn’t give 2 sh*ts about my opinion fine

Oh and once again sorry Joy it was uncalled for

[Vajramusti]

Nope I have stated if I do wing chun, if I have ever done wing chun, but does it really matter?

I could have done it for 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years or 20 years the response would probably be the same,
Wing chun spread wide and far and very uneven, only a few got the real deal from yip man, the inference here is of course, (buy whomever is saying it be it Joy or Kevin or spenser ir any number of other people) that my teacher did get the real wing chun yours didn’t so it doesn’t matter how long you trained and with whom because you dont get it
(this kind of talk by Kevin is the thing that drew me to this wing chun forum and made me post in the first place lol so blame him)
The funny thing is everyone who says this seems to have found the real deal in terms of teachers: amazing that so few actually got yip mans skills yet so many seem to have been trained by those few

Having said that I’d like to apologise to Joy, whatever I feel about his writing style he is entitled to his opinion and its his style we are talking about not mine so sniping is uncalled for. Sorry Joy

But it still comes down to this, there are no clips from anyone showing their version of special wing chun in action against a real opponent, we get demos like at the martial arts expo Spencer went to, we get chi sao demos and lots of talk about scientific this and that but nothing to show it in use, that is all im asking for, if you care so much about wing chun that you spend hours talking about it why not simply post a clip of what you mean, not a compliant clip, not a real hard sparring clip (phil has done this and it was good to see some of the stuff he talked about in action) if you don’t care and couldn’t give 2 sh*ts about my opinion fine

Oh and once again sorry Joy it was uncalled for

-------------------------------------------------------
No problem Frost. Thank you very much and let's move on.
I do not intentionally put any well established martial activity down and I am a long time student of the martial arts of several societies- East and West. No claims as an authority.On a wing chun forum I mostly talk about wing chun-my core style. What i do may not be and probably isn't for every one. But If I did not think that what I did was pretty good- I wouldn't do it.

Good skill development of any kind takes hours , months and years as is well known.As for me- wing chun daily since 1976 and other arts before that.

Many drop Ip Man's name at the drop of a hat. But it would be good to try and make good estimates for one self anyway, about how much actual time various wing chun sifus actually spent with Ip Man.It might surprise folks.

I am not into any kind of missionary work of any kind including wing chun- we each live with the consequences of our own decisions.

I do understand that without meeting someone and/or seeing a video about actual application it is not easy to accept things at face value. I don't make videos and don't even have a video camera.

I was asked to do an article recently showing a couple of practical applications of a couple of wing chun motions. They are snapshots not videos- and the article should be out about late July. I will give the citation at that time.

I do try to minimize my participation on the net- but I stick around here and there out of curiosity
about what is going on- a form of chi sao- if you will -to get a sense of the pulse of what is there.

BTW I am surprised that on the MMA forum there is not much discussion of Cain Velasquez defeating Silva. Cain was a superbly dedicated grappler at my University. he made one mistake in his previous Santos fight.He had a stiff hand guard against a head striker.But mistakes happen.He will keep developing and may do well against Santos next time..

Whatever my style of writing may be- I try not to make ad hominem put downs in forum discussions.
But discussion of facts can seem personal at times.

Again, thanks for your last post.

joy chaudhuri

[Frost]

-------------------------------------------------------
No problem Frost. Thank you very much and let's move on.
I do not intentionally put any well established martial activity down and I am a long time student of the martial arts of several societies- East and West. No claims as an authority.On a wing chun forum I mostly talk about wing chun-my core style. What i do may not be and probably isn't for every one. But If I did not think that what I did was pretty good- I wouldn't do it.

Good skill development of any kind takes hours , months and years as is well known.As for me- wing chun daily since 1976 and other arts before that.

Many drop Ip Man's name at the drop of a hat. But it would be good to try and make good estimates for one self anyway, about how much actual time various wing chun sifus actually spent with Ip Man.It might surprise folks.

I am not into any kind of missionary work of any kind including wing chun- we each live with the consequences of our own decisions.

I do understand that without meeting someone and/or seeing a video about actual application it is not easy to accept things at face value. I don't make videos and don't even have a video camera.

I was asked to do an article recently showing a couple of practical applications of a couple of wing chun motions. They are snapshots not videos- and the article should be out about late July. I will give the citation at that time.

I do try to minimize my participation on the net- but I stick around here and there out of curiosity
about what is going on- a form of chi sao- if you will -to get a sense of the pulse of what is there.

BTW I am surprised that on the MMA forum there is not much discussion of Cain Velasquez defeating Silva. Cain was a superbly dedicated grappler at my University. he made one mistake in his previous Santos fight.He had a stiff hand guard against a head striker.But mistakes happen.He will keep developing and may do well against Santos next time..

Whatever my style of writing may be- I try not to make ad hominem put downs in forum discussions.
But discussion of facts can seem personal at times.

Again, thanks for your last post.

joy chaudhuri

Thank you Joy
Cain looked very dominant, at the moment its between him and santos who takes the title although when and if DC turns up in the UFC I honestly think he will take them all out, the combination of a OL calibre wrestler (which the UFC rarely see’s) with great angles and heavy hands is just scary
Getting back to Cain v Santos if Cain can as you say get past those hands his ground and pound would win him the fight, a big if as Santos has really good take down defence and his accuracy with the punches is a bit scary
But anyone who can make big foot look that bas has a real chance of getting the title back

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro used to do some Moy Yat wing chun, Frost does not do wing chun and KG used to do Victor Kan wc now is affiliated with PB-vt. I dont do and don't care to do what any of what the threesome currently do.No reflections on their choices which I imagine might work for them.

I am a long time wing chun person from a substantial line and am familiar with many grapple-rs and MT clinches though they are not the same .

Of course I could make a stupid mistake if I am not alert. But my wing chun is fairly internalized and spontaneous and can adjust to other folks working on a clinch or choke. We go round and round with the same issues which come in cycles.

I don't speak for other people's wing chun. I am comfortable playing my (wc based_ game) against others including non WC folks.

Knowing something about "Southern arts" is bot the same as understanding wing chun.

Cheers, joy chaudhuri

Yep, I did "some" Moy Yat like you like to put it.
And?
While doing WC I was able to USE it and use it very well and, this may seem odd, I have lots of respect for the MA of WC ( though I don't care much for the commercial version of said MA that is passed off as it).
I still keep many things "WC" from my time there.
In terms of southern arts though, I have put more time (and sweat and blood) into Hung Kuen and SPM over the last 8 years.
None of that changes the very valid criticisims that I or anyone else has of what is "mainstream" WC.
WC people do NOT spar enough, they do NOT fight enough, they spend far too much time on complaint drills and "patty-cake" chi sao.
And there is pleanty of video evidence of that.
GO to ANY WC demo or any WC demo clip and you will see pretty much what I just wrote above.
On THIS Forum we only have evidence of TWO schools fighting and sparring regularly and that is Alan Orr's and Phil's.
They put up clips of chi sao and of forms AND of fighting.
While others put up clips of anything BUT fighting.
Quite an interesting observation of what was developed to be a FIGHTING system.

[Sean66]

Hey, the clip I put up of my students has sparring in it.
We do lots of sparring and combat drills.
Also just did an exchange at a local mma school last night.
Took seven of my students up there and they had a great time mixing it up with some non-wing chun people.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hey, the clip I put up of my students has sparring in it.
We do lots of sparring and combat drills.
Also just did an exchange at a local mma school last night.
Took seven of my students up there and they had a great time mixing it up with some non-wing chun people.

Always good to hear.

[Frost]

Hey, the clip I put up of my students has sparring in it.
We do lots of sparring and combat drills.
Also just did an exchange at a local mma school last night.
Took seven of my students up there and they had a great time mixing it up with some non-wing chun people.

Honestly can’t remember seeing your sparring clips Sean but I don’t really spent that much time on this part of the forum (honest!), but your posts come across as well balanced and informed so I have no doubt you guys are training hard and having a blast, hope the experience sparring the MMA guys was fun

[TenTigers]

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1171968 wrote above.
On THIS Forum we only have evidence of TWO schools fighting and sparring regularly and that is Alan Orr's and Phil's.
They put up clips of chi sao and of forms AND of fighting.
While others put up clips of anything BUT fighting.
Quite an interesting observation of what was developed to be a FIGHTING system.[/QUOTE]

Alan Lee's NYC WC school also trains hard, spars hard, etc.
This school is the Kyokushin of Wing Chun!
I have seen people leave after one class....some even crying.
Well worth checking out.