Choy Lee Fut Sparring

[jo]

If the clip is supposed to be CLF, then why are they kickboxing?

A couple of backfists and overhands does not CLF make?

Where are your low stances, or any stance for that matter?

CLF is a vicious, intense style that does NOT look like "stand up" kickboxing.

- jo

[hskwarrior]

The clip shows some guys relatively new to CLF who are trying to put the combat side of it to work. I saw hammer fists (pek choys) and the others. I'm sure as they keep sparring and exploring their CLF they are going to improve. it takes time to imbed the CLF way into ones routine.

so you are asking where is the "CLASSICAL" choy lee fut, i guess.

I agree, i didn't see much there. But like anything, it takes time to learn. some people learn faster, some people learn slower. its never about the system, its always about the fighter.

i agree, CLF is vicious. under the right circumstances we can be relentless n brutal.

Yet, i disagree about the height of the stances. even the Chan fam side of things say all beginners start out low then eventually move on to higher stances. personally, i feel lower stances are too slow. i've also noticed the buk sing fam changing from really low to higher stances as of the recently past years.

I also disagree with the general being disappointed in them. i believe he would have some positive things to say about them.

[Robinhood]

I remember when I first started MA, I was 15 and it was Kenpo Karate, they showed you all these forms and techniques with special punches, chops and kicks of all different applications. Then they said come to Chinese Boxing. Class, in the class you put on protective gear and fought like you guys are doing. I thought to my self, where are all those moves and kicks I learned ?, I did that for 10 years, and I can tell you that it does not develop you to use your MA.

It is good exercise, as long as you don't get hurt, but you are spinning your wheels as for as learning to apply your art or yourself in a efficient manner that works in the future.



Cheers

[hskwarrior]

Class, in the class you put on protective gear and fought like you guys are doing.

put the gloves on and body gear and fight and learn to use the style. don't get caught up in the classical BS. use the techniques of your system. the gloves and body gear are only intended to take harder blows and try out harder blows.

[TenTigers]

Well, ya gotta start somewhere, I suppose.
I personally don't teach sparring in this way. I teach "attack sequences," which are bridging techniques with follow-ups, reaction drills, etc.
When the student can perform the attack sequences-which is part of our standardf warm-up for each and every class, so that it is "hardwired into the system," then we do a drill called, "Random Acts of Violence." Which is having them go across the floor doing the sequences at random, as I call them out.
The next step is "Flow Fighting," which is "sparring," but slowed down and continuous attacking. The idea is to completely flow non-stop barrage.
When they can do this well, they gear up and increase the intensity-speed/contact, and then they are fighting.
Once they are proficient in this, they are taught to develop more tactics, movement, set-ups, etc.
So far, if they "trust the process," it's been working pretty well.
Sorry, no vids as of yet...but you get the idea.

One caveat; sometimes I will let them just "spar" right off-just to let them see how much they don't know, so they are more receptive to my method.

[nospam]

The person in red showed he has good basic understanding of CLF and has obviously received good instruction. You said this video was posted after a few rounds and we all tend to get higher as we tire and the intensity wanes. I'll let it go without stating the obvious re: stance; stance gives power and mobility to each and every move.

The red fighter had good attack sequences with nice counters. You rarely, if ever, initiated the attack though. When you initiate the attack you set the pace of the engagement and give yourself one-two moves advantage..if you continue the press.

The black fighter initiated the attacks (good for him!) but most, if not all, were feeble. If your response to that is he (and you) were tired, then you should have stopped sparring, taken a break, then got back at it afterwards. There are many ways to practice fighting, and I've sparred to exhaustion but always with a teacher to keep me focused and yell out ques to get lower or better balance or attack! attack! attack!

This is one thing that is missing. You need to continue what you're doing but make sure a teacher or 3rd person is present to remind each of you to maintain basics. Otherwise you are now merely working on cardio and sparring instead of jogging: no difference.

A suggestion for the fellow in black..keep your feet grounded, forget your kicks for now because they are a weakness. Drill them on the bag and in 2-person training before he uses them in sparring, but until he gets better using proper stance and movement, concentrate on legs, full rotation, minimum 4 techniques per attack, and never..ever..turn your back. When your opponent turnes..game over. If he must turn..Red, remind him to cover with some form of long arm technique. As he gets better, and if he is overwhelmed, this move will be him re-engaging not quitting.

Good 'nuff for now.

nospam

[Marcelo-RJ]

Nospan, thank you very, very much for your notes and advices.

I'm the one in red. I used to be a (Hung Fa Yi) Wing Chun practitioner until I found some very nice clips on youtube and fell in love with CLF for good.

Unfortunately, there is no CLF teacher in my city, Rio de Janeiro. There was a great one, the late Mah Hei Kao, who's passed away ten years ago. I had the opportunity to attend but a couple of CLF classes under him when I was 19 yrs old (now I'm 41).

I also had some experience with Hung Gar when I was a kid, but there goes more than 30 years.

Besides my two CLF classes under Sifu Mah back in 1990, I've only had a week of private instruction under Sifu Wong Zen Yem of Brooklyn, NYC (July 2011), and more recently had the pleasure to train for a few days with a brother from San Diego (who taught me the Siu Moy Fah form) that was visiting a mutual friend in Rio and other two times with brother Chon Chang, a student of Sifu Paul Chan's lineage.

Now here I am, training again and again the few movements and trying to remember the ton of details that I've learned from Sifu Wong (whom I plan to visit again next November).

So, yes, I tend to counter, more than to attack first. Guess that's still the Wing Chun in me. And, yes, my stances are not low, which is a reflection of my previous WC training too, but it also reflects the teachings of Sifu Wong, at least as I understood them (check it at 7'33" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7EHeBfMUYU ).

In the video, maybe you'll notice that I'm trying not to use Wing Chun or Hung Gar. Not that I do not like it, not that I do not find it effective. The point is that now I consider myself a CLF man, although a newcomer, so I'm trying to incorporate CLF to my game, the more that I can. I mean, given my previous experience, I've already have my own way to express myself in sparring and performing sets and forms - BUT I want to incorporate the CLF signature in that expression of mine.

So, thanks again for helping this little brother from the South. I'll take each of your words into account, pass your advices to the brother in black and hope to have a new and more satisfactory clip soon.

All the best!

[Marcelo-RJ]

put the gloves on and body gear and fight and learn to use the style. don't get caught up in the classical BS. use the techniques of your system. the gloves and body gear are only intended to take harder blows and try out harder blows.

Sifu Frank, I agree 100% with you.
Putting gloves and gear does not mean becoming a kickboxer.
I believe no sound kickboxer will watch my clip and say I'm a kickboxer. My guard, my mobility, my posture, my bridges... no kickboxing.
BUT if you train hard, if you and your partner feel ok in hitting and being hit, then you'll see that putting your KF style to function gets harder as the intensity of the sparring increases. And if you do not know your training partner and/or his style, then it gets really more interesting.
I plan to visit Sifu Garrett Gee in Daly City one day again and I'll make sure to contact you beforehand when that happens.
Take care, brother!

[hskwarrior]

Marcelo,

i live in daly city. so cool. i look forward to that. contact me at facebook tho cause i enjoy my time away from this forum. i'm at peace hahaha.

keep up the good work. don't let these others tell you anything unless they can show you.