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Thread: The shot in MMA (aka the double leg)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Fantasy? That word doesn't exist in my dictionary. I have tried to bring others from the fantasy world back into the real world. The only thing that I believe is whether you can knock/throw me down or the other way around. I'm not the person who believe in any "snake engine", 6DFV, or the "spiritual world". The world that I'm living in can't be any more "real".

    If both of your hands can push on your opponent's forehead, one of your fists will be able to hit on his face which will give you better result in MMA rullset. You run your head into your opponent's pushing hands. Same as you run into your opponent's punch/kick. It happens all the time in combat.

    The "速(Su) – forehead push" principle had been used in the Chinese wrestling for over thousands years (where punch is not permitted in that sport). It's the #10 basic drills among the ancient 24 basic drills.

    http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4...reheadpush.jpg
    At best that MAY give you "whiplash" but it won't snap a thing.
    The break or even dislocate a cervical vetebra, you need to do a very different action than that.
    The worse case for that type of force is a compression, perhaps "chipping" of the vertebra.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #32
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    The double leg is very similar to a rugby tackle. I’ve played rugby all my life and have never come across anyone breaking their neck from a ‘double leg style’ rugby tackle. Lots of other injuries mind, but no broken necks!

  3. #33
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    A tackle actually has far more momentum and would have far more potential for injury, that there are no "broken necks" due to bad tackles speaks volumes.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    true water might start running up hill soon, i mean its not happened yet but you never know....

    well lets see, close to a century of competitive shots in both wrestling and MMA, no one has yet had this happen to them, its that’s not good enough for you them lord knows what is
    I didn't say that move will always cause injury, but it can interrupt your opponent's forward movement.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-13-2012 at 11:37 AM.

  5. #35
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    It's harder to stop a shooter's head under the MMA rule-set than it is in 'da street,' but that doesn't explain the differences with shuai jiao. I think in this case that it's all about whether or not knees can touch the ground.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I didn't say that move will always cause injury, but it can interrupt your opponent's forward movement.
    sure show me any examples of this......

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    sure show me any examples of this......
    I don't have clip for that.

    How much damage will a "head on collision" have depends on

    - speed,
    - weight, and
    - strength of the structure.

    It's all relative and not absolutive. When your opponent moves toward you with great momentum, the weakest point is his neck. All MA principles are to use your strength to fight against your opponent's weakness. When the head goes, the body will follow.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-13-2012 at 02:15 PM.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    The double leg is very similar to a rugby tackle. I’ve played rugby all my life and have never come across anyone breaking their neck from a ‘double leg style’ rugby tackle. Lots of other injuries mind, but no broken necks!
    Well, when you were a kid you probably were taught the fundamentals of a rugby tackle which includes taking a guy down to the opposite side of your head. Apparantly two or three rocket scientists have done this in MMA on the same side their head was resulting in spinal compression fractures.

  9. #39
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    Yes that’s true, you soon learn that if your head ends up between the ground and your opponent it’s going to hurt! Concussion being the likely outcome. Which goes back to Frost’s first sentence about the double leg: ”When done properly…”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I don't have clip for that.

    How much damage will a "head on collision" have depends on

    - speed,
    - weight, and
    - strength of the structure.

    It's all relative and not absolutive. When your opponent moves toward you with great momentum, the weakest point is his neck. All MA principles are to use your strength to fight against your opponent's weakness. When the head goes, the body will follow.
    Ok you said double legs runs the risk of having your head pushed back and your neck broke, since you see this as a risk it must follow you can list examples of it happening in reality, otherwise why see it as a risk?

    Then you stated pushing the head back can stop the momentum of a double leg, again to state this you must have some factual evidence correct? Because although I don’t watch that much wrestling these days I do watch a fair bit of submission wrestling and MMA and have been in the game for over 10 years and I have never seen a double leg stopped in the manner you are talking about or even slowed down, let alone any injuires happen from it?

    On a related note Grapplers bull the neck to shorten the lever arm they also angle the back and head to make pushing it harder and are moving too fast for you to easily push it back, this makes the defence you are talking about very low percentage and the injuries you are on about almost nonexistent as far as I’m aware

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    Yes that’s true, you soon learn that if your head ends up between the ground and your opponent it’s going to hurt! Concussion being the likely outcome. Which goes back to Frost’s first sentence about the double leg: ”When done properly…”
    Thanks for spotting that bit of my sentence
    Head on the same side of the tackle usually results in a stinger or as you say a knockout, the most broken necks I have seen seem to come in the front row, you have to be mad to be a hooker or prop lol

  12. #42
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    Yes tragically a number of players have suffered serious spinal injuries at scrum time; you would indeed have to be insane to want to play in the front row.

    Thinking about stopping a rugby tackle, you can hand someone off in the face which sounds like what is being discussed here, again not heard of a broken neck from being handed off, accidental finger in the eye perhaps…

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    Yes tragically a number of players have suffered serious spinal injuries at scrum time; you would indeed have to be insane to want to play in the front row.

    Thinking about stopping a rugby tackle, you can hand someone off in the face which sounds like what is being discussed here, again not heard of a broken neck from being handed off, accidental finger in the eye perhaps…
    Yep stiff arm can work if they come in too high and are reaching for you, but then its not a proper tackle, and a double leg which should be even lower than a rugby tackle and happens typically at a much closer range with less reaction time.
    I also I believe in rugby the stiff arm seems to work if the tackler is moving in the same direction as the attacker, ie you are side stepping to the left around him and he is driving to him right to tackle you as you go past , in other words you are not meeting force on force as in a double leg (unless your last name is tuilangi and then it works whenever you want it to lol)

  14. #44
    Something that dawned on me last night as I was passing a guillotine attempt is that no one brought up that it's not too difficult to pass a guillotine if you know how. In the short of it - get him on his back with your hips opposite their lock and walla - you have him in side control and he has an ineffectual over-hook. Youtube for details and practice. So why all the fear?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Something that dawned on me last night as I was passing a guillotine attempt is that no one brought up that it's not too difficult to pass a guillotine if you know how. In the short of it - get him on his back with your hips opposite their lock and walla - you have him in side control and he has an ineffectual over-hook. Youtube for details and practice. So why all the fear?
    To be honest, I kind of assumed that everyone knows, by now, the the guillotine is not that big a deal.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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