All things White Crane!!!

[Minghequan]

Hi,

Arising out of my recent discussions with Hendrik etc I am looking at starting this thread to look at "All things White Crane!"

So lets start at the beginning and lets share what we have, know or think!!!

I'll start by asking what was the original White Crane really like?

[Hendrik]

To have a solid based,

I suggest using the 5 layer categorization to break the lineage you know and examine each layer in details.

The 5 layers is a good way of looking at the subject clearly from different angle and put complex things into perspective.

I develop the 5 layer to understand what is going on. when ask the question of what this lineage or style do in each layer, one can see what the style is doing clearly. Most tcma researchers fail because they do not have both a systemic view and a details view of the style.

If one do a 5 layer anlysis of the different types of crane evolution and identify the common denominators, one will see what is in the blood line.

one needs to answer all the questions of the five layers of a particular style to be able to learn it fully.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hi,

Arising out of my recent discussions with Hendrik etc I am looking at starting this thread to look at "All things White Crane!"

So lets start at the beginning and lets share what we have, know or think!!!

I'll start by asking what was the original White Crane really like?

Was White crane created/developed to fight ? and if so, under what context?
Answer THAT and you will have the first step to unlocking the "secrets" of White Crane ( and any other MA as well).

[Minghequan]

Sanjuro Ronin:

Was White crane created/developed to fight ? and if so, under what context?
Answer THAT and you will have the first step to unlocking the "secrets" of White Crane ( and any other MA as well).

Thank you. My view and understanding is yes it was created to fight in the area of personalized life-protection. So I approach the art from this perspective naturally but I also am equally interested in it's health, Mind and energy aspects in looking at it from a totality point of view.

Hendrik:

To have a solid based,

I suggest using the 5 layer categorization to break the lineage you know and examine each layer in details.

The 5 layers is a good way of looking at the subject clearly from different angle and put complex things into perspective.

I develop the 5 layer to understand what is going on. when ask the question of what this lineage or style do in each layer, one can see what the style is doing clearly. Most tcma researchers fail because they do not have both a systemic view and a details view of the style.

If one do a 5 layer anlysis of the different types of crane evolution and identify the common denominators, one will see what is in the blood line.

one needs to answer all the questions of the five layers of a particular style to be able to learn it fully.

Okay! Sounds good and logical. Can you point me in the right direction to get me started on the 5 layers? What has your research in this manner given you? What are the discoveries you have made?

[YouKnowWho]

My view and understanding is yes it was created to fight in the area of personalized life-protection. So I approach the art from this perspective naturally but I also am equally interested in it's health, Mind and energy aspects in looking at it from a totality point of view.

The day that we see TCMA has turned into "health, mind and energy, better body condition, belong to a group, a hobby, have people to chat with, ...", the day that we should all get a rope, find a quite place, and hang ourselves. We don't want our future generation to blame on our generation to cause that to happen.

[Minghequan]

You Know Who

The day that we see TCMA has turned into "health, mind and energy, better body condition, belong to a group, a hobby, have people to chat with, ...", the day that we should all get a rope, find a quite place, and hang ourselves. We don't want our future generation to blame on our generation to cause that to happen.

I agree but also look to the art as being more than just fighting ... it's my way ... not everyone else. A totality approach does not dismiss the over-riding essence of the art that it was and is used for fighting and Personal Life-Protection!

[SergeTk]

The day that we see TCMA has turned into "health, mind and energy, better body condition, belong to a group, a hobby, have people to chat with, ...", the day that we should all get a rope, find a quite place, and hang ourselves. We don't want our future generation to blame on our generation to cause that to happen.

I don't know what style you practice but I'm pretty sure all of the above (with exception of hobby ) has been part of the TCMA since day one in one form or another....

[Minghequan]

SergeTk:

I don't know what style you practice but I'm pretty sure all of the above (with exception of hobby ) has been part of the TCMA since day one in one form or another....

Agreed! That is the way I view the arts.

[YouKnowWho]

Agreed! That is the way I view the arts.

Allow me to ask the following questions then:

- Will work out in gym give you more "health" and "better body condition" benefit?
- Will go to church give you more "mind" benefit?
- Will join in the local gangs give you better "belong to a group" and "have people to chat with" benefit?

We should not make TCMA into something it was not designed for.

[Hendrik]

Okay! Sounds good and logical. Can you point me in the right direction to get me started on the 5 layers? What has your research in this manner given you? What are the discoveries you have made?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=63819

[Minghequan]

YouKnowWho: (Actually No I Don't know You at All!):

Allow me to ask the following questions then:

- Will work out in gym give you more "health" and "better body condition" benefit?
- Will go to church give you more "mind" benefit?
- Will join in the local gangs give you better "belong to a group" and "have people to chat with" benefit?

We should not make TCMA into something it was not designed for.

This thread is not about the TCM versus Combative Applications of TCMA. If you want to discuss that aspect then please feel free to start a whole new thread on that actual subject (although I have a feeling it's been done to death already!)

[Minghequan]

Thanks Hendrik!

Would you care to share some of the couplets of White Crane in your possession and perhaps explain or share your views on same?

I have a few I've listed here:

Yi tou,shen, shou,zu sizhong li shi wei san zhan bu fa de genji:

The four pillars of force, the head, body, hand, foot are the basis of three fighting methods.

Use the head, body, hand & foot as four kinds of strength as the very basics of SanZhan footwork.

Shou you san jie,shang jie tun jian,zhong jie tun zhou ,wei jie menghu chulin:

The hand has three joints,upper joint supports the shoulder, the medial joint, the elbow and the lower joint sets out the appendage,

The hand has three sections (Jie), upper section swallows shoulder, middle section swallows elbow, lower section “fierce tiger emerges from the forest (Refers to a Chin-Na Techniques seen in the forms)

Neijierutie, wai jie ru mian, shou zhi ru ni, nei,wai jie jingjing xiangshang,quanbu shenli yi jie wei menhu:

The internal joint simulates Iron, the external joint simulates linen hand and fingers simulate concrete, internal and external joints simulataneously move upwards; the joints act as release point of the whole body’s force.

Inner section (Jie) like iron, outer section like cotton, the fingers are like mud, inner and outer sections move forward together, the entire body uses sections (Jie) as guards

Shou you liu men zhi bian,bian you shang xia zuoyou chu ru zhi fen:

The hand has six points of release, drifting upwards, downwards, to the the right, outwards and inwards.

The hand has six (men) kinds of change, changes are up, down, left, right, out, in.

San zhan wei xian ,duanzheng wei wu,ranhou lian qi shou zu xiang yingjingu chu li yi qi chuan.jiji zhi shi guan qi dishi er chu bu,guan ta ren zhi mianmu kezhi ta ren zhi chu li,cha qi shen ke zhi qi shen zhi dongjing:

The three fighting methods coming first, followed by the joints, and then the effect of the hand and foot, and underlying bones together unleash theenergy .The rapid move is directed towards the targets face in a manner that makes the hands release power, determined by the entire bodys bloodvessels.

SanZhan is the most important, correct posture a must, then train moving the hands with the foot corresponding to each other, the tendons and bones produce strength/power (li) with one breath (referring to correct breathing) at the same time.

Zhi yao li zu menhu,shang, zhong,xia zi you jie ying:

The body needs to be relaxed in the superior, medial and inferior positions to release the power.

Before attacking observe the situation then make a move, looking at the opponent’s face can tell the strength of the person’s attack, observing the subtleties (Shen: Possible telegraphing) can tell the body’s movements.

[Minghequan]

Some more:

You qiao duan qiao, ke dui zhuang er po, wu qiao sheng qiao,yin zhi er po shou wei bubu xian ruan,er hou ying yong jin:

Bridge the gap to break the resistance, create the bridge where there’s noneto break it progressively from hand to tail, first with tenderness followed by firm strength.

Only need to erect good guard (Men hu ~ guarding) upper, middle, lower attacks are naturally defended.

Wu tan yu qian,wu shi yu hou, bu bu liwen,shenli guanlian,shouzuxiangying Tunzhong, shenzhongqianhou liangpian zhengzhong dai jing, fu zhong daichen,chenzhong dai dong,you huoqi zhi yi,bu ke cha yin shi yang:

Without moving forward, without drifting backwards, stabilize your body position, to concentrate your body strength, effectively along your hands and feet.

If there is bridge (Chiao) break the bridge, standing post (Zhuan) can be used to break, with each step hands and feet are first soft (Rou), then use hard (Yin) strength. (Referring to White Crane Techniques). Position your body centrally, backwards and forwards in two unmoved patterns, in suspense, then in motion, with full force, without becoming YIN deficient or losing YANG.

Don’t attack first, don’t attack last, every step is stable, use the entire body connected together to produce power (Li), hands and feet correspond to each other. The hips and centre of body are stable (Zhen) and unmoving (Jin), floating (Fu) but also sinking (Chen), Sinking but also moving (Dong), the spirit is loose and active, (“aliveness”) you cannot lose ying or miss yang (hard and soft together).

Xue zhe you xin ji lian, lun nian bu lun yue:

The student must practice this by heart, yearly and not monthly.

If the student has heart then train, think in terms of years, not months.

Sui shou,zu dong ru che lun, er shen neng jing ru tie zhu,shouwan ying ru tie zhi. liang zu luodi bubu sheng gen:

With the hands and feet moving like a carts wheels and the body still as an Iron rod, the palms as stiff as an Iron pad, the two feet progressively land to the ground as a live root.

The hands and feet move like a wheel of a horse carriage, the body can be stable unmoving (Jin) like a pillar of iron, hands and wrist hard like bars of iron. The whole feet have to touch the ground when moving, with every step the feet take root (stable footwork.

Ruo yi ri bao zhi shi ri hanzhi,tu lian xuming, er wu shi xue:

A days replenishment prepares for ten days of distress: practice your moves, and do not forget what you have learnt.

If the student one day trains intensely, then ten days trains without effort, then the student is only claiming to practice martial arts (but is a fraud) he/she is not learning seriously.

Chu shou shangbu zhang si,xiabu bu jieying.rbu che wu lun bu neng zhuanzishen bu neng bao,zenneng qusheng ta ren, shi yi yi xue nan jing ye:

Move and relax your hands upwards, then downwards without stress. Just as a cart with no wheels, is unable to turn, Just as is it impossible for an unsatisfied body to conquer an attack, so is difficult for the student who doesn’t learn to pass easily.


When attacking, the upper body is tense and rigid, the lower body will not correspond with the upper. Like a cart (Chariot) without wheels cannot spin, the student cannot protect himself/herself, how can he/she succeed over his/her opponents. It is easy to learn fighting but hard to reach the next level (elite fighting level).

Tun tu fuchen jun xu ji, gangrou xiang ji ding xinshen:

Suspend and relax your body, with tenderness directed towards your heart andspirit.

The student must remember swallowing (Tun), spitting (Tu), sinking (Chen), floating (Fu), hardness (Gang) corresponding with softness (Rou) and calm and steady your spirit.

Yan ru shen,shou si jian,chushou ru yin chu lu,dui ta si feng bailiu,shang xia zhuanquyi shen li, lai you sheng qu wu ying, qianbian wan hua lian zhi jie ye, si shan wu ding,si hai wu di, wangfan zhi shi keyi ke ren hu zhi, chushou zhi shi you ru gaoshanliushui:

Eyes like nerve, hands like spikes, hands stretched out like a stretched path, against the target like gust of wind, upwards and downwards turning.The body’s force coming forth with sound, returning with no shadow, changing a thousand times, straightening ten thousand times to get a leaf, similar to a peakless mountain or a bottomless sea, back and forth to target the bodys support,stretching out the hands like a waterfall from the mountain top.

Eyes like spirit (Shen), hands like arrows, attacking hands twist and turn like a winding road, to the opponent you look like a willow tree blowing, swaying in the wind, moving up and down, twisting or turning use the entire body’s strength. Coming with sound and leave without shadow (Referring to fast footwork and attack, not stealth), improvise and change like branching leaves on a tree branch, like a mountain without a top or an ocean without a bottom, moving and retreating (attacking the enemy and protecting the limbs), attacking like falling water from a tall mountain.

[Minghequan]

Shen wei zhu, yan wei shuai, shou wei bing, jiao wei jiang,li you san qi qi,feng you san li yin, zuodantian, you qi hai, tun zai di, tu zai tian:

Taking the body as prime, the eyes as a guide, the hands as a yard stick,feet as a pillar; power from three sources, wind from three outlets, streaming from left to right, the tongue on the ground, spitting in the sky.

The body is the master, the eyes is the general, the hands are the soldiers, the feet are the elite soldiers. Power (Li) come from three (Chi), wind (Feng) directed from three, left is dan tien, right is chi hai, swallow the ground (Di) spit at the field (Tien).

Youzuo bi you you, you you bi you zuo, you kai bi you he,you lai bi you qu lai qu bi fenming, wu ji gui yi lu:

The left must have the right, the right must have the left, a bond must have unity; an arrival must have a departure, arrivals and departures must be distinct, the five basic routes as one. If there is a left there must be a right (attack), if there is a right there must be a left (attack), if there is open there must be closing, if there is coming there must be leaving, coming and leaving (attacking and retreating) are clear, these five basics go together to one road (combined).

Wu zong bu zong, wu hou bu hou, you men ze da, wumen ze shou:

No bonds can be combined, no future has a future, with a door there is aside, with no door there isn’t an opening.

Don’t be the first and don’t be the last, (attack after the opponent telegraphs, but before opponent completes attack), if there is an opening (Men or “Door) attack, if there is no opening (men) then guard.

Ziji zhi shou,pei ta ren zhi bi,ziji zhi you, pei ta ren zhi zuo:

Use your hands, to target his nose, position yourself to the right, to target his left.

Your own hand follow opponent’s nose, your other hand follow your opponent’s opposite hand (guard position).

Jiaoshou zhi shi zhi ke qu shuai,ta lai sui ta lai, ta qu sui ta qu,ta zuosui ta zuo,ta you suita you, ta bian suita bian,t a di sui ta di, guojiao bi fenming:

Only with your hands crossed can you create guidance, He comes as he wishes to, he goes as he wishes to, He drifts leftwards as he wishes to, he drifts rightwards as he wishes to, he changes as he wishes to, he retreats as he so wishes, every move must be distinct.

When crossing hands (attacking) only take the general (eyes), when he comes let him come, when he goes let him go, when he goes left let him go left, when he goes right let him go right, when he changes technique let him change, when he lowers let him lower (Di), every action must be clear.

Gangrou xiangji shi zhengfa, xushifenming, wanwu yi shi:

Tenderness simulates a positive method, distinct enough with no loss.

Hardness (Gang) corresponding with softness (Rou) is the correct method, make clear of false and real attacks (real attack or feint), do not miss one attack in then thousand attacks.

Qianquan gui yi lu, da ren zhi yi xia:

A thousand turns in one move,can only knock somebody down. A thousand styles follow one road, there is only one road to hit a man

Jing er daidong wei zhi yu li, dong ji daijing wei zhi fengli,fengyu renzhen shi pozu. Shou zu judong, shenchen jing xing yu zhi shi, qi chen dantian quanshen daidong xingyu zhi shi:

A gentle move is likened to a rain of force, a move with gentleness is likened to a wind of force. Rain and wind forces combined will break the target the hands and legs move simultaneously, the body relaxes like falling rain with the energy streaming from the sky, the entire body moving as falling rain.

Unmoving (outside) yet moving (inside) is the power of the rain (Yu li), moving (outside) but still (inside) is the power of the wind (Feng li). Practice diligently wind and rain (Feng, Yu) to break through (refers to attack and footwork, swaying or standing still). Moving the hand and foot, the body uses rain (Yu). Chi sinks down to Dan tien, the entire body uses rain (Yu).

Zong he shenfa wuxing,jian ru gui, fu ru xia,yao (huo) ru long,kua ruhouma si talun:

Conclusively, the five body moves: the shoulder as that of a ghost, the abdomen as that of a shrimp, the waist as that of dragon, the knees as that of a monkey, are likened to a horse cart.

Ancestral Crane Fist has five body forms: shoulder like turtle, abdomen like shrimp, waist (loose) like dragon, hips like monkey, foot (moves) like a horse cart.


Shi he quan wu yin qi li zhi gong:

Take note of the five elements of energy force.Feeding Crane Fist has five sounds to aid strength and Chi:

Xu shi pi tu zhi tun li;

Energy streaming from the spleen EARTH, is sucking energy.

Xu (X=sh, pingying) comes from spleen, swallows strength (Earth)

Xi ji shenshui zhi chenqi;

Streaming from the kidney WATER , is sinking energy

Xie comes from kidneys, sinks Chi (Water).

Huo nai xinhuo zhi fuli;

Streaming from the heart FIRE is floating energy.

Ho comes from heart, floats strength (Fire)

Ha nai gan mu zhi tuqi;

Streaming from the Liver WOOD is spitting energy

Ha comes from liver, spits Chi (Wood)

Xi shi fei jin fa sheng li.

Streaming from the lungs GOLD is sound energy.

Xi comes from lungs, uses sound to aid strength/energy (Metal/Gold)

Zhaoyang baihe quanfa zhi wu

Zhaoyang Five Step White Crane method of fist moves

Fan quan qi zhi shou, zhi yao zhaoyang. Wu lun ta yong he shi,ke yong ci
shi, da men fang guo, xiao men zhi ru. Gai ci shi liang shou gu bi mian duan ya gu zhong lan qie, jie fen jiu tui hou :

Whenever you raise your hands, you need zhaoyang no matter what moves the target use . You likewise use the same move, let the target move through the large opening, into the small entrance, With your hands covering the face and nose, cut through the bones of middle teeth, then move backwards.

[YouKnowWho]

This thread is not about the TCM versus Combative Applications of TCMA. If you want to discuss that aspect then please feel free to start a whole new thread on that actual subject (although I have a feeling it's been done to death already!)

That's fine! You start this thread but you only want to hear what you want to hear.