Alan Orr Chi Sao to Gor Sao clip.

[Alan Orr]

Do you guys do lat sao jik chun drills in chi-sao ? I ask because in the clip there is 'air' between each person and no strikes ?

Yes of course, but that's not the only skill needed in fighting. Controlling space is a higher skill you get from working the bridge in glove sparring. That's why it was Chi Sao to Gor Sao. Its not just rolling.

[Alan Orr]

I would have liked to see a bit more angled footwork, which tends to be the "answer" to chi sao, but I have always liked how the CSL system is aggressive with their pressuring in their clinch work.
I think he was respecting you too much Alan

It is what it is. Its just one clip of some of our training. You deal with what you need to deal with at the that time. Its not a demo.

[Alan Orr]

Hi, i have been a lurker on this forum for some time and thought on this occasion that i would comment. I am also a student under Alan Orr Sifu and have trained under him for almost 8 years. I have played chi sao with my teacher many times and it is very difficult to land any shots/destroy his structure when he is playing his "a" game. Trust me, i DO try to control/hit him when im playing chi sao, if i wasnt trying he would probably put me under more pressure and insist i DO try to hit him.

We dont do compliant chi sao in the Chu Sau lei system, its just not our way.

Sai Jun Mak is one of my kung fu brothers and is highly skilled, my teacher in this clip is simply not allowing him any openings. If he did im sure Sai would have taken them.

Chris

Thanks brother

[nasmedicine]

Yes this is free style. Sai is one of my top students. He was trying to attack. As he is very good I stepped it up for him, otherwise at his level if would be the other way around if I came down a gear. Funny as a beginner and a advance student can look the same once they are a few steps behind. This was part of his test so I was not giving him a chance as such.

Sai was not holding back, when we glove spar I do get hit more, in Chi Sao as we have bridge contact I have a few more gears they my students.

I understand. You definitely where not giving him a chance, lol. Please keep sharing as do particularly like your clips.

- Cheers

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is what it is. Its just one clip of some of our training. You deal with what you need to deal with at the that time. Its not a demo.

No, it doesn't look like a demo.
I was just saying that many times students, KNOWING their teacher, give them more respect than they "should" ( Cause they know the teacher is better).
One of the reasons I prefer to see drills and sparring done by students than the teacher.
Not a critique Alan, simply an observation.

[Alan Orr]

I understand. You definitely where not giving him a chance, lol. Please keep sharing as do particularly like your clips.

- Cheers

Many thanks. Yes, we have lots more coming. I have lots of sparring with my pro fighters but we have to hold that right now as they have fights coming up and we want to keep harder stuff in house so the opponent don't get a look.

Are team has had 1 boxing win 2 K1 wins and 4 MMA wins in the last month.

best Alan

[wingchunIan]

Thanks for posting Alan. I love watching your clips and as you say in your signature what you train is in some cases a bit different. On this occassion i'd agree with glen that however long your student has been training he seemed frozen and simply covered up waiting to be hit. Maybe it was out of respect, maybe just a bad day / session (only he will know), but there were plenty of opportunities for him to initiate / attack, defend / counter even allowing for your extra ability.
Only an opinion of course.

[Alan Orr]

Thanks for posting Alan. I love watching your clips and as you say in your signature what you train is in some cases a bit different. On this occassion i'd agree with glen that however long your student has been training he seemed frozen and simply covered up waiting to be hit. Maybe it was out of respect, maybe just a bad day / session (only he will know), but there were plenty of opportunities for him to initiate / attack, defend / counter even allowing for your extra ability.
Only an opinion of course.

Thanks Ian. For sure he did more cover up than attack. But that was due to the pressure. Under pressure you can not always do the counter that can be seen by people under no pressure. It was a pressure test and for me its about holding it together under high pressure and trying to stay in the game. In BJJ if you are out gunned you just wait and stay safe as you can until you chance comes. Guys that go crazy get tapped quick. So yes he did freeze up for sure, but he is very skilled and a strong big guy. The key was to try to stay within the limits of Chi Sai and Gor Sao and not loose his mental control. When I spar with gloves with Sai he lands more strikes than in Chi Sao, but Chi Sao does have limits. My control of skill in Chi Sao in not bad so should be able to take control of him. If he was able to hit me back more, then people would be saying you are getting hit to much. lol
The reason we post these clips is no reason. Its just normal training. I am trying to get away from all the BS in wing chun from people that can't fight or don't train in a way that is testing what they are teaching. Lets just train and share clips of real training. What happen at 2.45 or 3.15 or when he looks that way or when my elbow was here or there is all pointless. That's not what its about

[Alan Orr]

No, it doesn't look like a demo.
I was just saying that many times students, KNOWING their teacher, give them more respect than they "should" ( Cause they know the teacher is better).
One of the reasons I prefer to see drills and sparring done by students than the teacher.
Not a critique Alan, simply an observation.

This is true. My guys fight so they come at me hard as we don't have that type of thing where you can't hit as I am the teacher going on. For sure if I go hard it causes them to freeze up more but that's the test. I have other guys that just go harder and harder as well lol On the same weekend we did over 15 hours training. I got punched, kicked, taken down, rocked and tapped! and I was teaching them! That's a more than normal weekend for us.

[Ali. R]

I don’t see anything he’s doing wrong and choose not to, because he’s just doing what he does.

I would beat my student silly if they don’t try to hit me back, all of my students are told to hit me and hit for real, the only reason why it looks like they're giving me respect is; because they can’t get pass my defense…

Offenses is only and mostly crap to me; because anyone could throw a good punch, but can one stop a punch for real with good structure ; when it really counts.

That’s what’s up,

[imperialtaichi]

I know we train and use our wing chun in a way that some people would disagree with, which is all cool. I just like to put out a different view for people to see.

True, even boxers argue over the finer points in a hook; but Alan, more people should agree with you. If not the technical detail but at least on your approach. You got my vote.

[Wayfaring]

The reason we post these clips is no reason. Its just normal training. I am trying to get away from all the BS in wing chun from people that can't fight or don't train in a way that is testing what they are teaching. Lets just train and share clips of real training. What happen at 2.45 or 3.15 or when he looks that way or when my elbow was here or there is all pointless. That's not what its about

To me you guys train normally, like how I train with a MMA team, except my team's base art and the coach's background is Dutch MT not WCK. I post few clips of that training (but posted fights on the sticky thread) as everyone would say "that's not WCK". I don't have a lot of comments on your clips because to me they look like "hey, there's some guys training". A lot of other clips to me look like "hey, there's some guys slap fighting, or acting like they know ground work, or crashing into mirrors".

[guy b.]

To me you guys train normally, like how I train with a MMA team, except my team's base art and the coach's background is Dutch MT not WCK. I post few clips of that training (but posted fights on the sticky thread) as everyone would say "that's not WCK". I don't have a lot of comments on your clips because to me they look like "hey, there's some guys training". A lot of other clips to me look like "hey, there's some guys slap fighting, or acting like they know ground work, or crashing into mirrors".

To people like Wayfaring and Sanjuro Ronin, why does this clip of training footage get a mostly free pass (minus some gentle ribbing about a non responding student) when much better clips of chi/gor sau are ripped to shreds for not being full on fighting?

Alan is even allowed to state nonchalently that this is just his normal training and that he is trying to get away from all the normal BS wing chun from people that don't even train (when in fact all wing chun people do chi/gor sau and most do sparring).

Maybe you are all acting a bit like Alan's student in the clip?

[Alan Orr]

To people like Wayfaring and Sanjuro Ronin, why does this clip of training footage get a mostly free pass (minus some gentle ribbing about a non responding student) when much better clips of chi/gor sau are ripped to shreds for not being full on fighting?

Alan is even allowed to state nonchalently that this is just his normal training and that he is trying to get away from all the normal BS wing chun from people that don't even train (when in fact all wing chun people do chi/gor sau and most do sparring).

Maybe you are all acting a bit like Alan's student in the clip?

It's all down to opinion too which is better or not. That's why some will like what I do and other will like other methods. Of course you have made clear your dislike to me in other posts so it would be no surprise that you would like this clip.

Please post your clips so we can see what would be better.

[Alan Orr]

To me you guys train normally, like how I train with a MMA team, except my team's base art and the coach's background is Dutch MT not WCK. I post few clips of that training (but posted fights on the sticky thread) as everyone would say "that's not WCK". I don't have a lot of comments on your clips because to me they look like "hey, there's some guys training". A lot of other clips to me look like "hey, there's some guys slap fighting, or acting like they know ground work, or crashing into mirrors".

Thank you. Someone who gets it.