Alan Orr Chi Sao to Gor Sao clip.

[Alan Orr]

No one told anyone they should have the same point of view, it was personal views that were expressed.
And in this thread the people that have questioned your clip arent the same people that have challenged you previous clips.

So to use your line, i dont see the point of you bringing that up

Yes guy b was telling people that. That is why I made the comment. Again all pointless

[GlennR]

Yes guy b was telling people that. That is why I made the comment. Again all pointless

Ok, well ill bail from this thread

[Frost]

To people like Wayfaring and Sanjuro Ronin, why does this clip of training footage get a mostly free pass (minus some gentle ribbing about a non responding student) when much better clips of chi/gor sau are ripped to shreds for not being full on fighting?

Alan is even allowed to state nonchalently that this is just his normal training and that he is trying to get away from all the normal BS wing chun from people that don't even train (when in fact all wing chun people do chi/gor sau and most do sparring).

Maybe you are all acting a bit like Alan's student in the clip?

Although I wasn’t named (don’t feel bad I know you meant me as well) I’ll answer
My main criitism is that we see lots of chi say clips, almost no sparing clips and certainly even less fighting clips from the schools that post these clips, they seem to think chi sau is the big training secret, I have always stated that structure falls apart under pressure... well alan does pressure test his guys, he has plenty of clips of them sparring and fighting MMA and thai

And because its only part of his training, and he is trying to get away from all the bull and actually posts fighting and hard sparring. I don’t mind this clip, personally id rather do light clinch work than this, but im not a wing chun guy
If Kevin posted clips of just chi sau, and kept talking about how scientific wing chun fighting was i wouldn’t be impressed, if he also posted clips of his guys fighting full contact I might be and I wouldn’t rag on him, people posting endless chi sau clips without hard sparring and fighting clips is for me pointless as we can’t see the end result
As I say the clip for me isn’t anything special but alans not pretending it is, its just part of his training, but I appreciate there is pressure being applied and more importantly we can see by alans sparring and fighting clips of his students the outcome for him this sort of training brings

[sanjuro_ronin]

To people like Wayfaring and Sanjuro Ronin, why does this clip of training footage get a mostly free pass (minus some gentle ribbing about a non responding student) when much better clips of chi/gor sau are ripped to shreds for not being full on fighting?

Alan is even allowed to state nonchalently that this is just his normal training and that he is trying to get away from all the normal BS wing chun from people that don't even train (when in fact all wing chun people do chi/gor sau and most do sparring).

Maybe you are all acting a bit like Alan's student in the clip?

Context, that's why.
Alan HAS showed clips of them fighting, MANY clips.
If he now chooses to show a more complaint drill clip, the context will dictate the response.
If all Alan puts up were clips like that, He WOULD get asked "where's the beef?"
As for "much better clips", well...that is subjective of course.
As for "a;; wing chun people" doing chi sao and sparring.
I'll give you that one, yes all WC people do chi sao and sparring ( of some sort).

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yep, if it was Kevins clip of him belting a student around they'd be all over him ike a bad suit

You mean a Kevin's clip of Philip Bayer doing that, right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SJrVX2Nr68

In this clip I am giving my student less pressure and more time to react.

This was our normal learning pressure.

Any reason you guys don't use head gear of some sort?

[Frost]

You mean a Kevin's clip of Philip Bayer doing that, right?

**** you beat me to it!

[sanjuro_ronin]

**** you beat me to it!

BBWWAHHH !!!

Hey, I like kevin's clips and have nothing but respect for GM Philip Bayer ( and David Peterson and Gary Lam, etc...).
I think the WSL lineage has the goods from what I have seen.
Having read WSL book I KNOW that WSL knew "what was what".
Fighters KNOW Fighters and while I do NOT put myself in the league of legends like WSL, when you have fought enough ( iin and out of the ring) there are things you "expect" to hear coming from a guy that has "walked the walk" and you hear that in WSL.
My biggest critique of all the videos Kevin puts up is none of them have full contact sparring, which is something He says they do.

[Frost]

BBWWAHHH !!!

Hey, I like kevin's clips and have nothing but respect for GM Philip Bayer ( and David Peterson and Gary Lam, etc...).
I think the WSL lineage has the goods from what I have seen.
Having read WSL book I KNOW that WSL knew "what was what".
Fighters KNOW Fighters and while I do NOT put myself in the league of legends like WSL, when you have fought enough ( iin and out of the ring) there are things you "expect" to hear coming from a guy that has "walked the walk" and you hear that in WSL.
My biggest critique of all the videos Kevin puts up is none of them have full contact sparring, which is something He says they do.

Yep amazing how that camera seems to disappear right about the time they say they start to make contact

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yep amazing how that camera seems to disappear right about the time they say they start to make contact

I don't doubt that they do fight full contact.
I assume its a pretty small number simply because most people do NOT do wing chun to fight full contact.
I would just love to see it to confirm a few things I think about it.

[Frost]

I don't doubt that they do fight full contact.
I assume its a pretty small number simply because most people do NOT do wing chun to fight full contact.
I would just love to see it to confirm a few things I think about it.

hey id settle for simply sparring clips with a bit of contact

surely they must be more Numerous?

[Phil Redmond]

This is true. My guys fight so they come at me hard as we don't have that type of thing where you can't hit as I am the teacher going on. For sure if I go hard it causes them to freeze up more but that's the test. I have other guys that just go harder and harder as well lol On the same weekend we did over 15 hours training. I got punched, kicked, taken down, rocked and tapped! and I was teaching them! That's a more than normal weekend for us.

Anyone who trains realistically WILL get hit. Even if it's your student. Some Sifus get upset if a student hits them so students are sometimes reluctant to really hit back. I've told students that hit me good job. I should've covered the line. . .

[sanjuro_ronin]

Anyone who trains realistically WILL get hit. Even if it's your student. Some Sifus get upset if a student hits them so students are sometimes reluctant to really hit back. I've told students that hit me good job. I should've covered the line. . .

Yeah, but you k now that at times, students give their Sifu "too much" respect.

[sanjuro_ronin]

In Okinawa they have a saying:
100 styles, 100 sanchin.

I think it is time for WC to adapt that saying for chi sao:
100 styles, 100 chi sao's
Because it is very clear that each system, each style, indeed, each lineage, has their OWN idea of Chi sao.

[imperialtaichi]

This IS the idea we are using to attack people with, mental pressure , relentless attacking skills, will induce errors...hopefully

My strategy: I don't "simultaneous defence and attack." Attack is my defence.