Lets try a discussion about White Crane Gongfu!

[Minghequan]

Gino and others,

I'd love to have participated in the discussion of White Crane but then I saw this thread degenerate in to a series of one-liners and one upmanship in attempts at humor (not that I don't mind a laugh) so I quickly decided to give it a miss as it was plainly going nowhere.

Now I see some limited attempt at discussing the actual subject.

That was the crapiest video to demonstrate your thought or idea. Ron.... Where are you on all this? People are discussine White Crane and you are not here to rebutle.

Hmmm, please read the above.

As for the Youtube Video, I see it more as a demonstration of Qigong methods than actual fighting and I am not about to slam or put-down another school or style that I have not trained in on the basis of a few Internet Youtube grabs ... that would not be right nor fair.

Hey here's a novel idea! Perhaps some will start a thread that actually discusses White Crane??? Now wouldn't that be interesting!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Gino and others,

I'd love to have participated in the discussion of White Crane but then I saw this thread degenerate in to a series of one-liners and one upmanship in attempts at humor (not that I don't mind a laugh) so I quickly decided to give it a miss as it was plainly going nowhere.

Now I see some limited attempt at discussing the actual subject.



Hmmm, please read the above.

As for the Youtube Video, I see it more as a demonstration of Qigong methods than actual fighting and I am not about to slam or put-down another school or style that I have not trained in on the basis of a few Internet Youtube grabs ... that would not be right nor fair.

Hey here's a novel idea! Perhaps some will start a thread that actually discusses White Crane??? Now wouldn't that be interesting!

Sometimes threads don't go the way the thread starter wants them to go, typically because the thread starter isn't around.

[3v1lj03]

What brand of White Crane would you like to discuss? I am a practitioner of Tibetan White Crane and it's principles and methods are different then both Shaolin and Fujian white crane. Even within Pok Hok Pai the different lineages have lead to significant differences within the same "style"

[TenTigers]

What brand of White Crane would you like to discuss? I am a practitioner of Tibetan White Crane and it's principles and methods are different then both Shaolin and Fujian white crane. Even within Pok Hok Pai the different lineages have lead to significant differences within the same "style"

I believe Ron would like this thread to focus on the Fukien Bak Hok.
However, that being said, would you please start a new thread on Tibetan White Crane?
I am particularly interested in discussing their short hand techniques (which do share similarities to their Fukienese counterparts)
Footwork and body shifting, angling would also be interesting topics.

[TenTigers]

Hmmm,

Okay seeing as the other threade got a little off track lets see if we can discuss White Crane as:

1/. A Fighting Art!

2/. An art for Qigong!

3/. An art for health!

4/. An art for art and making good people, better!

ok Ron. I think to discuss WC's fighting methods would be good. As far as the other topics, as I said, they were not part of the original plan, but more serendipitous discoveries later on.
All Martial Arts can be for qigong and for health, if practiced toward that end.
I'm not saying that WC does not have separate qigong and health practices that are now within the system. My own Siu Lum Hung Kuen incorporates Yik Gung Ging, Bot Duen Gum, and Dao Yin methods into its practice. But first and foremost, it was designed for fighting.

[jdhowland]

I believe Ron would like this thread to focus on the Fukien Bak Hok.
However, that being said, would you please start a new thread on Tibetan White Crane?
I am particularly interested in discussing their short hand techniques (which do share similarities to their Fukienese counterparts)
Footwork and body shifting, angling would also be interesting topics.

Good idea. It's been awhile.

I'll start if no one else does.

[TenTigers]

Good idea. It's been awhile.

I'll start if no one else does.

go for it. It's time to bring this forum back to meaningful discussions and away from the ignorant bullsh1t.
Oh, but meaningless bullsh1t is ok...
otherwise I'd have nothing to say....

[YouKnowWho]

That was the crapiest video to demonstrate your thought or idea.

At least that clip is not "solo". Can you find any white crane clip that is not "solo"? I don't see much value to discuss "solo".

1. A Fighting Art!

[Minghequan]

Try here and lets see if we can get a real discussion going?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...41#post1174741

[David Jamieson]

geez, why start another one?

lol, now we're gonna have a bunch of protracted and empty white crane threads...

Let's talk white crane!

someone makes a joke.

The end.

Yeah, that's fun.

Dude, conversations are organic and people will input what they do.
Why don't you drop some stuff for discussion and debate and see where that unfolds?

Seems a bit thin skinned otherwise. It's not like anyone was abusive, just light hearted and you contributed exactly nothing to make that go in a different direction and now you are just going to do the same thing again.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Try here and lets see if we can get a real discussion going?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...41#post1174741

Nope, stick with this one Ron.

[GETHIN]

I am working on an old book I was given in Yongchun a few years ago... its massive. and a lot of time needed to translate it !. Here's a section some may find interesting.


DISENGAGEMENT pulling off.



1...When choosing to attack to the east, prepare to strike to the west.
Be sure to follow through by stepping forward.


2...When turning, do so with strength and speed - predict your fight.


3...When your opponent is of a greater size than you - shut him down.
Plan your moves - arrange your opponent and adhere to him.


4...Join and link gently to your opponents movements, close him down and secure.
Adopt and develop a flow that is consistent with your opponent, when this is
established your strikes will have effect.


5...As you move across your opponents path, if you are able to restrain him, throw him.
If your opponent hurts your head, you will hurt his face.



6...Be alert and efficient, guard your throat and look to your opponents.
If you are at very close range make full contact and use all of your body in whatever means possible.


7...If at long range, at first use your feet, deliver yourself with careful footwork.
If you intend to strike to the left shoulder, stike to the right shoulder first, deploy and deceive.


8...Footwork should be strictly adhered to.
If you choose to kick your opponent use your hands first.
Whether stepping or kicking always be prepared to return the foot to it's previous position.



9...Draw down, pull, then strike with severity.
If your opponent grabs your forearm, wrist or hand, use your free hand to chop to his wrist.
If your opponent grabs your sleeve hit them hard with all your body.


10...Use the knees with good purpose.
When in an attacking mode make your plan and execute it with vigour.


11...Always consider the best angle to fight from, without good footwork such options will not prevail.
Use low stances and gain control. If your enemy is smaller than you do not kick.


12...From a low stance jump high and strike whilst ascending.
If your enemy is bigger than you strike to the waist or lower first.


13...When descending grab whatever your opponent may present - and pull down.
Beware of opponent pulling your hair.
Divide your opponent into two targets - upper and lower.


14...If you chop to the neck be sure to use all your strength.
Kick, weave and shake to protect yourself.

15...Hands and feet working together will succeed.

[TenTigers]

9...Draw down, pull, then strike with severity.
If your opponent grabs your forearm, wrist or hand, use your free hand to chop to his wrist.


I take issue with this. If an opponent grabs your forearm, hit him. Striking to the wrist is inefficient, a waste of a movement. Your opponent will grab and strike, not simply hold.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My views:

1...When choosing to attack to the east, prepare to strike to the west.
Be sure to follow through by stepping forward.

Standard strategy in every MA of course.

2...When turning, do so with strength and speed - predict your fight.

I think "predict" is perhaps best stated as "dictate" your fight.

3...When your opponent is of a greater size than you - shut him down.
Plan your moves - arrange your opponent and adhere to him.

Play the angles, get in, control his fulcrum points and "stick" to him ( don't let him create distance).

4...Join and link gently to your opponents movements, close him down and secure.
Adopt and develop a flow that is consistent with your opponent, when this is
established your strikes will have effect.

Pretty much trying to fight OUR fight BUT within the context of what the opponent gives us- don't force it.

5...As you move across your opponents path, if you are able to restrain him, throw him.
If your opponent hurts your head, you will hurt his face.

Not sure about this one...

6...Be alert and efficient, guard your throat and look to your opponents.
If you are at very close range make full contact and use all of your body in whatever means possible.

Pretty straight forward.
Protect your vitals, attack your opponents.
Distrupt his structure with full force - not sissy slapping crap !

7...If at long range, at first use your feet, deliver yourself with careful footwork.
If you intend to strike to the left shoulder, stike to the right shoulder first, deploy and deceive.

Move in with angled footwork, the rest is obvious.

8...Footwork should be strictly adhered to.
If you choose to kick your opponent use your hands first.
Whether stepping or kicking always be prepared to return the foot to it's previous position.

No need to explain.

9...Draw down, pull, then strike with severity.
If your opponent grabs your forearm, wrist or hand, use your free hand to chop to his wrist.
If your opponent grabs your sleeve hit them hard with all your body.

Use gravity to feed your strikes.
Attack his limbs ie: closet targets
Use your whole body (not only into your strikes but also body strikes)

10...Use the knees with good purpose.
When in an attacking mode make your plan and execute it with vigour.

Not just about knee strikes but the importance of knee structure in attacking (solid stance).

11...Always consider the best angle to fight from, without good footwork such options will not prevail.
Use low stances and gain control. If your enemy is smaller than you do not kick.

Pretty straight forward.

12...From a low stance jump high and strike whilst ascending.
If your enemy is bigger than you strike to the waist or lower first.

Agian, use gravity to help your strikes.
Attack low line targets on bigger opponents.

13...When descending grab whatever your opponent may present - and pull down.
Beware of opponent pulling your hair.
Divide your opponent into two targets - upper and lower.

straight forward

14...If you chop to the neck be sure to use all your strength.
Kick, weave and shake to protect yourself.

Ditto

15...Hands and feet working together will succeed.

Of course.

[sanjuro_ronin]

9...Draw down, pull, then strike with severity.
If your opponent grabs your forearm, wrist or hand, use your free hand to chop to his wrist.


I take issue with this. If an opponent grabs your forearm, hit him. Striking to the wrist is inefficient, a waste of a movement. Your opponent will grab and strike, not simply hold.

Granted, but not every grab is deserving of mass annihilation !
There may also be a "dim mak" thing here...