Wing Chun Community

[Wayfaring]

From another thread...

Sanjuro- there is no wing chun community- minimally a very dysfunctional one.

Does everyone agree with this statement? Somehow many other arts (like BJJ and MMA) seem to have very rich interactive communities. Here's one example - one guy traveled the world and trained all over for free - http://www.bjjglobetrotter.com/

Does wing chun have a community?

Is it dysfunctional?

What to do?

[sanjuro_ronin]

From another thread...



Does everyone agree with this statement? Somehow many other arts (like BJJ and MMA) seem to have very rich interactive communities. Here's one example - one guy traveled the world and trained all over for free - http://www.bjjglobetrotter.com/

Does wing chun have a community?

Is it dysfunctional?

What to do?

Compared to other MA?
Perhaps...
Before the political crap, Kyokushin was a nice big family and ANYONE was welcome at any dojo, just like Judo.
Not anymore.
WC is a lot like that, too much politics.
Too much division base don theory and not enough union based on the one common element that ALL WC people should have: Fighting.

[k gledhill]

My Theory

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
― Frantz Fanon

[sanjuro_ronin]

My Theory

Its a fine theory except that it should NOT apply to MA.
Why?
Because in MA every theory CAN be tested.
As such, ANY view of WC that is put forth CAN and SHOULD be tested in the ONLY manner that ANY view can be tested in a MA: Practical Combat.

In boxing, if someone comes up with a "new" move or theory or principle, what do they do?
They test it in the ring.
Same for Judo or MT or BJJ or MMA or any style that is trained with CONTACT VS an opponent that is trying to fight back.
The only time cognative dissonance is a factor is when the theory can't be tested to show it to be correct or invalid.
NONE of that applies to WC.

[desertwingchun2]

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
― Frantz Fanon

To expand on that, a persons "reality" is formed by the individual's belief system. So in a very real sense, when a "belief system" is challenged, a persons "reality" is "threatened" as well. The reaction to one's reality being threatened is to protect one's reality.

This is from a recent read in Scientific American.

[WC1277]

I think everyone is still welcome at the majority of schools but per definition I'd say no. The closest would be a particular lineage one generation down would be a community. It is really no different from the old' days. Recognized masters might get together to share but you'd rarely see their students intermingling. A lot of it has to do with devotion to ones teacher and whether someone has completed their particular system or not. Once you've made something your own and went as deep as you're capable, then you should be open. But to learn a skill one really needs to go through it in its entirety first IMO. It would be like wanting to be able to be an astronaught captain but expecting to have the skill to fly it without ever being in the military flying regular aircraft. IMO the amount of different approaches to WC doesn't really allow someone to learn a little here and a little there and expect to be nothing more than a jack of 'some' trades but a master of none. I'm not incredibly proficient on my MMA knowledge but haven't some of the most successful fighters been rather qualified within their own MA of choice before deciding to even get into MMA?? If that's true, I think it speaks volumes about not only MMA but this supposed WC community as well. Just my opinion....

[sanjuro_ronin]

To expand on that, a persons "reality" is formed by the individual's belief system. So in a very real sense, when a "belief system" is challenged, a persons "reality" is "threatened" as well. The reaction to one's reality being threatened is to protect one's reality.

This is from a recent read in Scientific American.

Which in of it self is fine.
The issue is HOW does one "protect" ones reality.

[nasmedicine]

I can't speak for the entire community because I haven't been to every single school or have met every single person who practices WC. Furthermore if one is using the the activity on this for to make their comments then their view of the reality of WC is very very distorted (there are million of people who don't care to involve themselves in these forums).

At the school that I currently train and have been doing so for many years we have a very open door policy and are extremely friendly. Many people have come to visit from various corners of the US and even some parts of Europe and have become long lasting friends with our school. The Pan Nam headquarters even has our banner hanging in their main office due to the friendship we have created with them through open exchange with one another's art form. I feel this is because we do/did not try to impose upon them/anyone our methodology and way of thinking.

We never try to tell anyone that THEY ARE WRONG especially not without first giving them the opportunity to try and prove their point some how or some way. This of course doesn't mean that we necessarily agree either, however we always give everyone we meet/visits us the benefit of the doubt. With this type of thinking both parties in the end walk away with more then what they have came in with.

- Cheers

Nirav

[GlennR]

From another thread...



Does everyone agree with this statement? Somehow many other arts (like BJJ and MMA) seem to have very rich interactive communities. Here's one example - one guy traveled the world and trained all over for free - http://www.bjjglobetrotter.com/

Does wing chun have a community?

Is it dysfunctional?

What to do?

Id agree with Joy.
There is some intermingling of schools via curious students and/or open minded instructors but on the whole no.

But the question id have is why would you want one?

In another thread SR comments that there is different types of chi-sao (id agree) with a different emphasis on what and how they want to achieve things.... and lets be honest, chi-sao is the focus on everybodys chi-sao

So are you saying lets all blend, work out the "best way" and standardise?
Or more along the lines of an open door, interschool fights and sparring?

If its the 1st option id say no, but i think the second option would be good

[Lee Chiang Po]

There is a wing chun community, but it is made up of small and isolated schools and groups. I can spend the next 10 years looking for another chunner here and never find one, or anyone that knows what it is. I have to use the yellow pages. So it is not that large a community.
Here on this forum is might seem so, but this forum is made up of a lot of googlers. You can mention any style or system and someone is going to reflect on it as if expert on the subject. Even made up ones. Fighting takes place here all the time, but it does not represent the actual wing chun community at large.

[nasmedicine]

There is a wing chun community, but it is made up of small and isolated schools and groups. I can spend the next 10 years looking for another chunner here and never find one, or anyone that knows what it is. I have to use the yellow pages. So it is not that large a community.
Here on this forum is might seem so, but this forum is made up of a lot of googlers. You can mention any style or system and someone is going to reflect on it as if expert on the subject. Even made up ones. Fighting takes place here all the time, but it does not represent the actual wing chun community at large.

Well said and I agree.

[Robinhood]

Its a little different than other arts, quality depends a lot on trail of teachings , over time and teachers WC evolves from original art to many hybrid styles using the same name but having different application and reasoning why they do what they do.

Since most people think their art is the real WC, they don't want to be associated with the guys doing it wrong or different.

Since WC is more applications oriented these differences are greater than styles that just do forms or sets and external punching and kicking drills with very little interaction between practitioners.



Cheers

[imperialtaichi]

Too much talk, too little physical interactions, too much fantasy.

[nasmedicine]

Its a little different than other arts, quality depends a lot on trail of teachings , over time and teachers WC evolves from original art to many hybrid styles using the same name but having different application and reasoning why they do what they do.

Since most people think their art is the real WC, they don't want to be associated with the guys doing it wrong or different.

Since WC is more applications oriented these differences are greater than styles that just do forms or sets and external punching and kicking drills with very little interaction between practitioners.



Cheers

Good insight, you're right about those who don't like to mix it up with others to do it differently. In my experience there are those who practice their wing Chun in an almost religious like manner and then there're those who are not afraid to think outside the box.

[couch]

From another thread...



Does everyone agree with this statement? Somehow many other arts (like BJJ and MMA) seem to have very rich interactive communities. Here's one example - one guy traveled the world and trained all over for free - http://www.bjjglobetrotter.com/

Does wing chun have a community?

Yes. Just not here.