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Thread: Tibetan White Crane

  1. #1
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    Tibetan White Crane

    As per a suggestion by TenTigers let's talk about the other White Crane: the "lama fist" style of Ng Siu Jung (and his brother, Siu Chan) in all its various permutations. There have been some experienced and knowledgable posters here in recent years. Let's hope we can draw them in.
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

  2. #2
    Okay, perhaps you could get the ball rolling by telling us about the beginnings of Tibetan White Crane!

    Does it owe any of it's beginnings to the Fuzhou variety?

    Was it's origins strictly in the realm of Fighting Arts?

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  3. #3
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    I noticed that from the small exposure I had in TWC, there were some short hand techniques similar to Fukien/Hakka/Siu-Lum crane. Bong-sao, gaun-sau, and also the hooking and crane's beak strike-nearly identical to Siu Lum Hung Kuen.
    I understand that there was some trading in the system, and some TWC systems have a variation of the five animal fist from Siu-Lum Hung Kuen. (Deng family Hop-Ga also uses the Kiu-sao single finger hand)
    What can you add to this?
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  4. #4
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    How many types of TWC is there and how does Lama Pai / LionsRoar fit into it?
    Originally Posted by bawang:
    you will never be ready to spar, wing chun subhuman. your muscle have atrophied to size of a paraplegic from years of sil nim tao.

  5. #5
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    Si Ji Hao branched into three-Lama P'ai, Hop-Ga, and Bak Hok P'ai. Variations exist within the styles,and many share the same sets.
    It would be very cool to see a side by side comparison. There is a youtube vid floating about with Lama P'ai Sifu Michael Parella exchanging information with Hop-Ga Sifu David Rogers.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  6. #6
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    I've seen some TWC that is "tyical" long range stuff ( kicks with both arms out for balance, lots of "CLF" type long looping strikes, etc) BUT have also seen LR/LP stuff that was as inclose as SPM.
    Originally Posted by bawang:
    you will never be ready to spar, wing chun subhuman. your muscle have atrophied to size of a paraplegic from years of sil nim tao.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Si Ji Hao branched into three-Lama P'ai, Hop-Ga, and Bak Hok P'ai. Variations exist within the styles,and many share the same sets.
    It would be very cool to see a side by side comparison. There is a youtube vid floating about with Lama P'ai Sifu Michael Parella exchanging information with Hop-Ga Sifu David Rogers.
    Mike's stuff on youtube is great.
    Big loss when he stopped posting here...
    Originally Posted by bawang:
    you will never be ready to spar, wing chun subhuman. your muscle have atrophied to size of a paraplegic from years of sil nim tao.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I've seen some TWC that is "tyical" long range stuff ( kicks with both arms out for balance, lots of "CLF" type long looping strikes, etc) BUT have also seen LR/LP stuff that was as inclose as SPM.
    People from Mark Foon's school learned a TWC form prior to learning SPM. My SPM teacher showed me bits n bobs from it, and from what I can see, it is using many of the same body angles when striking, although much larger. Mark Foon was a Master in TWC and I believe Hung Kuen as well prior to studying with Lam Sang. The foundation in a larger frame boxing style develops the "engines" for a more compact system.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    People from Mark Foon's school learned a TWC form prior to learning SPM. My SPM teacher showed me bits n bobs from it, and from what I can see, it is using many of the same body angles when striking, although much larger. Mark Foon was a Master in TWC and I believe Hung Kuen as well prior to studying with Lam Sang. The foundation in a larger frame boxing style develops the "engines" for a more compact system.
    Very much so, going from "big to small" really develops the engine much better than diving it at "small".
    I am sure some can make it work from the start of course.
    The commonality of many southern systems is that, start big and end small.
    I recall one person mentioning that he believed that the southern short hand systems are all just "expressions" of an original long hand one.
    Originally Posted by bawang:
    you will never be ready to spar, wing chun subhuman. your muscle have atrophied to size of a paraplegic from years of sil nim tao.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    I noticed that from the small exposure I had in TWC, there were some short hand techniques similar to Fukien/Hakka/Siu-Lum crane. Bong-sao, gaun-sau, and also the hooking and crane's beak strike-nearly identical to Siu Lum Hung Kuen.
    I understand that there was some trading in the system, and some TWC systems have a variation of the five animal fist from Siu-Lum Hung Kuen. (Deng family Hop-Ga also uses the Kiu-sao single finger hand)
    What can you add to this?
    Perhaps you are referring to the Siu Ng Yim kune part of it? Never seen performed the Da Ng Yim Kune but I've heard they are two different beasts altogether.

  11. #11
    I have only started training in Tibetan White Crane. Due to my prior experience with other kung fu styles, my teacher allowed me to follow along while he performed his version of Siu Ng Ying. From the versions I have seen on Youtube (there is a version done in Singapore that is floating around), my teacher's version is much longer and consists of long range arm movements, kiu sau, as well as animal movements.

  12. #12
    I study TWC my sifu is from the Nig-Siu-Chung - Ngai-Yah-Tong linage. in fact I have never seen any forms posted on youtube or elsewhere that are the same as ours. I have seen techniques that are similar to ours and all our history and philosophy are consistent with the vast majority or Pok Hok Pai /Lama Pi/ Hap Ga. While there are some similar movements in TWC to the Fujian type there is no common history or linage. Sometimes what works works for all humans and those who seek find similar answers to common questions. I will be happy to attempt to answer questions concerning TWC to the best of my ability.

  13. #13
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    Perhaps the short-hand techniques were a result of Wong Yun-Lum exchanging knowledge with other Southern stylists, such as Wong Kei-Ying? I had heard this is also where the Siu Ng Ying Kuen originated as well.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  14. #14
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    (Deng family Hop-Ga also uses the Kiu-sao single finger hand)
    What can you add to this?
    There are some who think that the single finger bridge hand originated from Lama/Haap Ga, at least as far as Hung Kyun is concerned.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by illusionfist View Post
    There are some who think that the single finger bridge hand originated from Lama/Haap Ga, at least as far as Hung Kyun is concerned.
    yes, I've heard this as well.
    Here's the mystery; Some say that the Lamists were not involved in Fan Ching Fuk Ming, but obviously Wong Yun-Lum was. Perhaps the info to the contrary came more from bad Kung-Fu movies...
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

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