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Thread: Tibetan White Crane

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    heyang quan means hard crane. its a fujian short hand style.
    So it's like to say that Hop Gar comes from a Fujian Crane form,...(and it would not be the first time I hear this theory) but then,...woww.....what a jump of evolution from the typical Fujian Crane forms....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gru Bianca View Post
    So it's like to say that Hop Gar comes from a Fujian Crane form,...(and it would not be the first time I hear this theory) but then,...woww.....what a jump of evolution from the typical Fujian Crane forms....

    no, they just borrowed the name. guangdong kung fu likes to "borrow"
    other styles names. hung kuen, mui fa, lo han, siu lam, ng ying etc.

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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    .......
    for written documents, one of the republican era shaolin monks wrote about the prevalence of tibetan monks in the boxer rebellion


    secondary reasons include:

    chinese wrestling with manchu influence use mongol and manchu terms. if you had tibetan influence you would at least have some basic words, like punch or kick.

    hap kuen looks exactly like northern martial arts.

    hap kuen looks nothing like sichuan and qinghai martial arts.

    ...........
    Sorry, I was curious to know, if the monk you are referring to is 虚云..

    also, to which style of the north you find the most resemblance and finally, what styles are considered to be from Sichuan and Qinghai.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    it comes from oral history of martial arts in jiangsu province my hometown. during the boxing rebellion lamas introduced spirit possession to produce quick results.
    chinese use qigong and taoist magic, tibetans, mongols and manchu use spirit possession.

    mongols invite animal spirits, tibetans invite buddhist demon princes.
    Back in the 80's when as a teenager I called Chicago's Green Dragon Society for an interview, the brochure they sent me said that was what they did in their art. They called it the Northern temple art of Chi Tao Ch'uan where they harnessed the spirits of wild animal to power their deadly techniques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gru Bianca View Post
    Sorry, I was curious to know, if the monk you are referring to is 虚云..
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gru Bianca View Post
    also, to which style of the north you find the most resemblance and finally, what styles are considered to be from Sichuan and Qinghai.
    extending both arms in a straight line is common in many styles of northern kung fu. this is called whipping. sichuan styles dont do this. qinghai people dont train kung fu, theyre mongols.
    Last edited by bawang; 08-03-2012 at 05:38 PM.

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gru Bianca View Post
    what styles are considered to be from Sichuan?
    This form came from Sichuan. It was supposed to be the dragon style.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85nMTfiH9_k

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    That aint from Sichuan and it aint dragon style.Its the beginner long fist form lien bu quan .
    First smooth,then fast.
    Smooth is fast.

  9. #69
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    Yeah,northern styles stretch their arm out though from what I seen from Lama is that they got a whole different set of ideas than a lota other styles.
    First smooth,then fast.
    Smooth is fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeshe View Post
    That aint from Sichuan and it aint dragon style.Its the beginner long fist form lien bu quan .
    The Lien Bu Quan has nothing to do with the longfist system. Any longfist student can skip this form without losing anything. The bow-arrow stance cross punch was added in by GM Han Ching-Tan. It was not there in the original form. What kind of longfist basic training form doesn't even have bow-arrow stance cross punch?

    http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3836/punchz.jpg

    Dragon Fist also known as "Continuous Stepping Fist". It was created by grand master Liu Chong Jun, President of the Sichuan Martial Association, about 100 years ago. It was introduced in National Nanjing Wushu college & became a mandatory subject for wushu students. Fast movements are well-arranged & balanced. This is often known as Lien Bu and used as a "basic" set though, technically it does not serve that purpose all that well in that it has few truly basic movements. It is very common, the first form taught, for example in the Northern Shaolin system. This version, taught by the teacher with three helpers, bears little resemblance to the typical beginning level version - though it is definitely the same form. It is a fluid set with some complex hand actions.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-04-2012 at 10:03 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeshe View Post
    Yeah,northern styles stretch their arm out though from what I seen from Lama is that they got a whole different set of ideas than a lota other styles.
    in northern styles haymakers are only used once, never linked

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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    chinese wrestling with manchu influence use mongol and manchu terms. if you had tibetan influence you would at least have some basic words, like punch or kick.
    I've wondered about this. There is no Tibetan terminology in lama style, but why should there be? I never believed that Sing Lung/ Gold Hook was a Tibetan lama. But he also was not Cantonese and had trouble with the language. His art could have been a Chinese system originating in the north (in an area that was formerly eastern Tibet). His southern students were familiar with local systems and the terminology was borrowed.

    Unlike many northern systems lama style does not have poems for most of its sets. I think master Fong Kwan is correct when he asserted that lama style had no specific sets until the period of development in Gwangdong (c. 1850-1950).
    Last edited by jdhowland; 08-10-2012 at 08:03 AM.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jdhowland View Post
    I've wondered about this. There is no Tibetan terminology in lama style, but why should there be? I never believed that Sing Lung/ Gold Hook was a Tibetan lama. But he also was not Cantonese and had trouble with the language. His art could have been a Chinese system originating in the north (in an area that was formerly eastern Tibet). His southern students were familiar with local systems and the terminology was borrowed.

    Unlike many northern systems lama style does not have poems for most of its sets. I think master Fong Kwan is correct when he asserted that lama style had no specific sets until the period of development in Gwangdong (c. 1850-1950).
    If the "lama" system was originated in the North as Bawang suggests then shouldn't we be able to find still some traces in the North??? Some style that closely resemble it?

    In our tradition it is mentioned that Aduato was from Qinghai and I honestly do not really care whether the system stems out of some Tibetan origin martial art or not but what I think (very personal idea) is that it could have been originated in the once upon a time in history known as Khan region (east part of the now days Sichuan province) which was then considered part of Tibet and any way under the Tibetan cultural influence. (Still today that region is under a strong Tibetan culture influence, with I heard very "wild" people )

    Sing Long may have well not been a Tibetan in term or ethnicity but he could have well been a monk from the Lama tradition (whether Tibetan or Han ethnicity).

    I still remember the first time I went to visit the Yonghegong 雍和宫temple in Beijing (Lama Temple) in 1994 and while I was setting my first steps inside it I saw a young "monk" (perhaps not a real monk as more a layman providing service at the temple, but he was wearing robes) which was walking towards my direction swinging his arm in what it was clear to me to be a martial technique (i.e. a fist form) but which nature was unfamiliar to me and my till that time experience.
    It wasn't until I started with Pak Hok Pai that that episode came back to me with full clarity on what that fist form was....it was a Pao choy, the dots were finally connected.

    I can't of course vouch that that monk was practising something similar to mine or whether he was just playing around but I personally feel when he was swinging it it was with martial intent.

    Just a memory recollection

  14. #74
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    Pigua, tong bei, cha chuan seem to have some similarities.
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    Gru Bianca;1183003]If the "lama" system was originated in the North as Bawang suggests then shouldn't we be able to find still some traces in the North??? Some style that closely resemble it?
    Gru, I have been trying to find related systems as well. Many elements do, as Bawang noted, look "just like northern" systems. But I find no evidence of anything that seems to be a sister style.

    Maybe if we find a northern style that features a double paau cheui we will have found it.

    The genius behind lama style is that the emphasis always seems to be on training, power structure and conditioning and not on prescriptive technique.


    Sing Long may have well not been a Tibetan in term or ethnicity but he could have well been a monk from the Lama tradition (whether Tibetan or Han ethnicity).
    I agree. I don't know how well he would have been received by other buddhist monks in the south. I have read that maht jung/ mi zong budhism largely died out in China centuries ago even though it survived in Korea and Japan. If he was a fighting monk he need not have been a scholar or lama guru so I am doubtful about some of the claims that he became an abbot, but he may well have been a revered member of monastic communities. Some warrior monks were known to retire from their hard and dangerous lives to become scholarly or meditative lamas.

    I still remember the first time I went to visit the Yonghegong 雍和宫temple in Beijing (Lama Temple) in 1994 and while I was setting my first steps inside it I saw a young "monk" (perhaps not a real monk as more a layman providing service at the temple, but he was wearing robes) which was walking towards my direction swinging his arm in what it was clear to me to be a martial technique (i.e. a fist form) but which nature was unfamiliar to me and my till that time experience.
    It wasn't until I started with Pak Hok Pai that that episode came back to me with full clarity on what that fist form was....it was a Pao choy, the dots were finally connected.
    That's a good anecdote. I lived with a Tibetan lama at a dharma center in Hawaii. He was a "dancer" as well as a full master of the Kagyu sect. I never got to see him dance because it was a secret ritual, not a performance art for spectators. But here's the thing: he was a skinny guy but amazingly muscular; his biceps and triceps bulged in his arms. You don't get that from the preparatory dummo exercises. My room was next to his and he spent most of the day in seclusion and I rarelly heard a sound from him. He told me that the Asian way of maintaining military superiority is to hide what you can do and pretend to be weak until the moment you need your strength.
    "Look, I'm only doing me job. I have to show you how to defend yourself against fresh fruit."

    For it breeds great perfection, if the practise be harder then the use. Sir Francis Bacon

    the world has a surplus of self centered sh1twh0res, so anyone who extends compassion to a stranger with sincerity is alright in my book. also people who fondle road kill. those guys is ok too. GunnedDownAtrocity

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