Science Fiction or Fact: Instant, 'Matrix'-like Learning

[pateticorecords]

"I know kung fu." It's one of the most memorable lines from the 1999 film "The Matrix." Keanu Reeves' character, Neo, utters it after the martial art is "uploaded" to his brain in mere seconds via a futuristic computer jacked into his skull.

If only it were that easy. Nowadays mastering a style of kung fu takes thousands of hours of practice. But there are some emerging hints that the pace of learning a skill can be technologically boosted. Perhaps someday, with major advances in several fields, the acquisition of knowledge and skill could happen at broadband-like speeds across surgically implanted and external hardware.

"The concept is not totally implausible," said Bruce McNaughton, a neuroscientist at the University of Lethbridge in Canada. "I suggest that you check back in a couple of hundred years."

http://news.yahoo.com/science-fictio...201120126.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

Knowing AND doing are two different things my friend.

[SteveLau]

There are some truths in the Matrix learning method. Physical skills are acquired through experience. Knowledge is learnt and accumulated in our memory, and even implanted in our nervous system. That is why our moves are so fast, which are required for good fighting skill. Not every move is directly commanded by our brain. What is fictional in the method is how fast one can learn the art besides the necessary muscle and skeleton condition needed.


Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[rett]

This idea was explored in Joss Whedon's show Dollhouse. They imprinted normal "erased" people with fighting skills.

I think it's bullhocky because if you planted the mental representations of someone's physical skills in a different brain the recipient would be totally uncoordinated because of her different body shape, length of limbs, level of flexibility and a million other physical differences.

Alpha or Sierra or whoever would try to get up out of the chair and fall flat on her face and probably puke and be nauseous for three days while adjusting.

Imagine a big-handed pianist's skills planted into a person with smaller hands. All the representations would be off because the size of the keyboard is constant.

The skills can't just be abstractly stored in the brain. They are stored in THAT brain in THAT body with their lifelong interconnections.

I still loved that show though.

[ginosifu]

Knowing AND doing are two different things my friend.

I agree here with SR. You might be able to upload into your brain, however you need physical doing of the uploaded material for muscle memory. Also you will timing distancing training (Sparring, fighting pratcice etc).

ginosifu

[YouKnowWho]

Knowing AND doing are two different things my friend.

Agree! Not only different. There are 100 miles apart.

I can fly in my dream but I can't fly when I wake up. Old Chinese saying said, "If you don't spar/wrestle for 3 days, your hands and legs will no longer be yours".

In combat, you use your body reflection that come from your "spine nerve". If you try to use your brain, you will be too slow. This is why I don't agree with the internal 3 harmonies (Yi, Qi, and Li). If you always have to depend on your Yi, you will be too slow.

Here is an example.

- Your opponent attacks you with lighting speed.
- Your leg kick out without thinking.
- Your kick hit on his chest and break his ribs.
- He drops down in front of you.
- You suddently realize what you have just done.

Your Yi (mind, brain) is not using in the entire process.

[mickey]

Greetings,

"Knowing AND doing are two different things my friend."

Not to a psychopath. It is what makes them dangerous.


mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

Studies have shown that even just mimicking the moves ( not actually doing them per say but visualizing them AND doing them in a mimickng fashion) cause the neuropathways in the brain that DO those moves to activate and become ingrained.
Think pretending to do free throws with a basketball and actually doing the move but with a basketball or a net.
The issue is that the, while the neuroptahways are there in the brain, the neuro-muscular ones are not.
You still HAVE to do it in the most SPECIFIC way possible, in short you still HAVE to take a real basketball and net and try to get it in.
The studies showed that visualization can INCREASE the ability to do something BUT you still HAVE to do it.

[David Jamieson]

Lazy, shiftless, unmotivated people would be attracted to this type of marketing.
I can see how they would give it buy in so long as they never had to test their mettle.

Otherwise, you can think all you like, but if you can't do, you simply can't do.

[SteveLau]

The truth is that the more advanced the fight skill level we are at, our nervous thinking does more of the work than our brain does. At whatever level, we still need to think. And that is what YouKnowWho's quoted example meant.



KC
Hong Kong

[Sardinkahnikov]

Acquired somatic reflexes requires effort, repetitions and experience to be ingrained into the nervous system, so even the theoretical knowledge wouldn't help you much, I think...specially since martial art techniques are better understood through feeling the movement rather than relying on mental descriptions. Can you establish the necessary pathways for ALL the small moves and adjustments you'd need during a fight? Dunno.

But other than martial arts, a machine like that from the Matrix would totally kick ass. "Oh no, I forgot to put up the presentation for client and I know jack sh1t about their market segment and product! What am I going to do?" ----> then BAM! instant knowledge. ****, I wish I had one of these during school.

[Lucas]

but if that were real, think about using that in conjunction with actual training. it would simply become a 'performance enhancer' just like any other drug. maybe you are strong, and fast, and train a lot and are ok with the material but not great. maybe its the boost you need to get to that next level. is it cheating? or is it just a new stage of advancement. we as a people are evolving technologically at a very very fast rate. more so than we do physically without a doubt.

i dont think any martial artists would want to replace actual training with that, but who wouldnt want to supliment with something like that? maybe old school people who are very set in their ways, but you will all die eventually and leave the world to the next generations who would embrace this type of thing almost without thinking.

i have this magical tiny black box in my pocket. i can literally take that thing out and ask it any question with my voice, and it has a very very high chance of giving me almost any answer to any question that is within the framework of general human knowledge. 50 years ago, no one would have believed that even remotely possible. a few hundred years ago if i could go back in time and still have a connection to my mobile carrier, i could convice people that the magical black box was a window to the knowledge of god. and it would be worshiped as a holy relic.

kids now days are born into that, it simply is part of being human now. when all us old fukers die off, the world will belong to the children technology.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I think we are short sighting our potentials.

If you simply go back to our high school and college days we observe that we were learning several unrelated subjects at the same time and, true to sanjuro ronin's argument, we had to apply what we learned (homework). And we were tested on it. The full component of learning was there. Even in that scene from The Matrix, Neo had to apply what he learned. It was instant knowledge, not instant knowhow.

This is not to take away from people who tend to have instant knowledge and knowhow about some things. They do exist.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

Greetings,

I think we are short sighting our potentials.

If you simply go back to our high school and college days we observe that we were learning several unrelated subjects at the same time and, true to sanjuro ronin's argument, we had to apply what we learned (homework). And we were tested on it. The full component of learning was there. Even in that scene from The Matrix, Neo had to apply what he learned. It was instant knowledge, not instant knowhow.

This is not to take away from people who tend to have instant knowledge and knowhow about some things. They do exist.

mickey

Yes, but if the context is epiphany or sudden realization, then the backwork and observation has been done.

Physical knowledge and ability cannot be acquired by mind alone. Action is absolutely required to ensure the glue is set so to speak.

It is folly to set these types of expectations with people. I've met many a young man pursuing martial arts from the wrong end of the work IE: a comic book view of it. This is why that often times when they get to the parts about actually doing and repeating while in a teacher / student setting they will fall away.

People who have problems with authority will always jump at the easy 3 binder with DVD to wellness stuff as opposed to actually doing the work.

After all, it is true that cause and effect are at play in all instances.

[pateticorecords]

I think it would be a useful tool for someone who already has a solid foundation in martial arts. Of course, practice would be necessary but it would shorten the learning curve.
Similar to trained martial artists that can watch a video and afterwards are able perform the primary movements based on their visualization of them.