Alan Orr Wing Chun Question's 7 - Angles and Pressure

[k gledhill]

Yes it's a good example of validation of understanding. When you have a background in an art you can talk in depth about it and share. Problems come with people trying add their view to areas that they are unsure of, which we see of for some reason.

I only have strong views on areas that I have a good understanding in.

Likewise, I post in VT forums because I have some experience with VT . I have hands on experience with your teacher R. Chu and another CSL student of his, so I can at least speak with that experience.

I make observations based on that.

[Alan Orr]

IMHO,

A simple yoga ball can be used to experience the angling shifting, link de link, load release.

A yoga ball like this.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CJUBEPMCMAA


Just go to a wall, facing the wall with the yoga ball between one and the wall.
Press the ball with ones body . Try to angling or shifting while you increase the pressure to the ball. Experience for yourself when the pressure increase up , angling and or shifting is no longer ease, after a certain level of pressure, if one doesn't back off to decrease the pressure and doing the angling, one will get bounce off.


So, in my definition, different people might define differently, pressing the ball to the wall is loading and linking, back off to decrease pressure is delinking. Launching the ball to bounce out from its pressing state is releasing.

These are experiment one does to understand a part of basic momentum elements in fifth layer of YKT .

A simple ball lead one to understand the momentum phenomenons.

If one doesn't aware of these will have a difficult time to handle a real human who intentional press again one and target to destroy one structure and momentum.

Thus, these are basic of the basic.

It is not just collision, it is knowing things as it is and handle them. It is scientific. One cannot be over simplified rainbow color to just black and white. That is violating the reality.

Very nice, I teach this with a medicine ball. If you drop the ball then you lost control of pressure when moving, which would mean a lost of opponents center control

[Frost]

John Is a great shuai chao player. So, we certainly can learn alot from him.

however when it comes to Other styles of chinese martial art , those are not his area of expertise.

Since he lists his teachers, and shows himself in action doing those arts you claim aren't his area of expertise im more likely to trust his views on things than someone who hides behind veiled insults and mystical talk of engines who can’t even read a simple sports science book

[Hendrik]

Very nice, I teach this with a medicine ball. If you drop the ball then you lost control of pressure when moving, which would mean a lost of opponents center control

Yes!

Unless we learn these, we has no major handling on sticking of WCK.

[Hendrik]

Since he lists his teachers, and shows himself in action doing those arts you claim aren't his area of expertise im more likely to trust his views on things than someone who hides behind veiled insults and mystical talk of engines who can’t even read a simple sports science book

1. Anyone can list their teachers and showing their art, however, that doesn't mean they know the art. I don't buy those name dropping and posture mimicking deal.

For me, if one cannot tell the core or insight, one doesn't know the art


2. There is no mysterious things in true tcma, everything is scientific. And repeatable.
The reality is also not simple as one like, so never use the term mysterious as an abili to cover ones in capability to understand the existing complex phenomenon.




3. Take a look at this conversation between John and myself. Judge for yourself
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=123


4. I don't mine to give face. But when giving face is misleading the general public then that is the point to stop.

[Alan Orr]

Likewise, I post in VT forums because I have some experience with VT . I have hands on experience with your teacher R. Chu and another CSL student of his, so I can at least speak with that experience.

I make observations based on that.

I do respect your views Kevin even we don't always agree. We have some different ideas and in some areas I think we do agree. You have been around a long time in Wing Chun. I did meet you many moons ago in Jack's shop before you went to NY.

I know you have real time in VT and experience, so I do listen to what you have to say. Only problem is with the guys that think something is wrong because they don't understand it. Which to be fair is how I must sound to them - only difference is I have done both so I can see what is different, as it's first hand. Also the level of guys I work with is very high and my background is MMA and grappling means I have extra insights outside of just chi sao training. Not talking directly to you on that. Just in general to some of the guys that hide away on this forum.

[k gledhill]

I do respect your views Kevin even we don't always agree. We have some different ideas and in some areas I think we do agree. You have been around a long time in Wing Chun. I did meet you many moons ago in Jack's shop before you went to NY.

I know you have real time in VT and experience, so I do listen to what you have to say. Only problem is with the guys that think something is wrong because they don't understand it. Which to be fair is how I must sound to them - only difference is I have done both so I can see what is different, as it's first hand. Also the level of guys I work with is very high and my background is MMA and grappling means I have extra insights outside of just chi sao training. Not talking directly to you on that. Just in general to some of the guys that hide away on this forum.

Agree ! on an open forum, herecy !!

I was in touch with Jak a few months back. He said he had a student he was training for some MMA.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I do respect your views Kevin even we don't always agree. We have some different ideas and in some areas I think we do agree. You have been around a long time in Wing Chun. I did meet you many moons ago in Jack's shop before you went to NY.

I know you have real time in VT and experience, so I do listen to what you have to say. Only problem is with the guys that think something is wrong because they don't understand it. Which to be fair is how I must sound to them - only difference is I have done both so I can see what is different, as it's first hand. Also the level of guys I work with is very high and my background is MMA and grappling means I have extra insights outside of just chi sao training. Not talking directly to you on that. Just in general to some of the guys that hide away on this forum.

I totally agree that to many times a critique comes from "not understanding",simply because there is a lack of " point of reference".
Of course the problem is NOT ALWAYS with the one that doesn't understand, it is with the one that is doing the "explaining".
We we have far to much in the MA is people trying to explain "walking" with the analogy of "kite flying" and doing that in German for a Spanish audience.
Know what I mean?
Lets be honest Alan, in this day and age, the information age, people that WANT to show something CAN show it and they can VISUALLY explain it to the ninth degree.
IF after ALL that, what they are showing is still "gibberish", is it really the fault of the person that "doesn't see it"?
EX:
You can explain the correct physics of fajing till you are blue in the face and yet one simple video is truly worth 1000 words, and in this ALL agree.
BUT we also agree that doing something while NOT FIGHTING that is suppose to be done WHILE FIGHTING, will never give the correct picture, yes?
So, while OTHER systems show their principles and techniques while fighting, we do NOT get that TYPICALLY from WC demos, do we?
Why?

[Frost]

1. Anyone can list their teachers and showing their art, however, that doesn't mean they know the art. I don't buy those name dropping and posture mimicking deal.

For me, if one cannot tell the core or insight, one doesn't know the art


2. There is no mysterious things in true tcma, everything is scientific. And repeatable.
The reality is also not simple as one like, so never use the term mysterious as an abili to cover ones in capability to understand the existing complex phenomenon.




3. Take a look at this conversation between John and myself. Judge for yourself
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=123


4. I don't mine to give face. But when giving face is misleading the general public then that is the point to stop.

i did read that conversation and judged for myself

[Hendrik]

i did read that conversation and judged for myself

Good for you!

[sanjuro_ronin]

i did read that conversation and judged for myself

See, here is the thing with John:
He knows his stuff.
How do we know this though?
Well, he was an accomplished competitor.
When he demos fighting stuff, if the clips are not of him doing it, it is of another from his system doing it and, typiclaly, vs a resisting opponent.
John also echos what people that HAVE fought before tend to say and agree on.
So we have in John's favour:
The argument from experience
The argument from demonstration
The argument from different sources
In short, we have multiple lines of evidence that lead us to believe that John knows his stuff.

Do I really need to go on and point out what we don't have from "the other guy" ?

[Robinhood]

See, here is the thing with John:
He knows his stuff.
How do we know this though?
Well, he was an accomplished competitor.
When he demos fighting stuff, if the clips are not of him doing it, it is of another from his system doing it and, typiclaly, vs a resisting opponent.
John also echos what people that HAVE fought before tend to say and agree on.
So we have in John's favour:
The argument from experience
The argument from demonstration
The argument from different sources
In short, we have multiple lines of evidence that lead us to believe that John knows his stuff.

Do I really need to go on and point out what we don't have from "the other guy" ?

I know John knows SC . I think it is a speciality art.


Cheers

[k gledhill]

I know its a random post, but why are we discussing a shuai jiao wrestlers input towards VT ....just asking ? If you're trying to make a 1:1 with chi-sao and wrestling

[Hendrik]

I know its a random post, but why are we discussing a shuai jiao wrestlers input towards VT ....just asking ? If you're trying to make a 1:1 with chi-sao and wrestling

Because these people hates me and will use anything and everything to troll, hijack debunk my post. The only thing they didn't do is read and understand my post.

Hahaha.

[Alan Orr]

I totally agree that to many times a critique comes from "not understanding",simply because there is a lack of " point of reference".
Of course the problem is NOT ALWAYS with the one that doesn't understand, it is with the one that is doing the "explaining".
We we have far to much in the MA is people trying to explain "walking" with the analogy of "kite flying" and doing that in German for a Spanish audience.
Know what I mean?
Lets be honest Alan, in this day and age, the information age, people that WANT to show something CAN show it and they can VISUALLY explain it to the ninth degree.
IF after ALL that, what they are showing is still "gibberish", is it really the fault of the person that "doesn't see it"?
EX:
You can explain the correct physics of fajing till you are blue in the face and yet one simple video is truly worth 1000 words, and in this ALL agree.
BUT we also agree that doing something while NOT FIGHTING that is suppose to be done WHILE FIGHTING, will never give the correct picture, yes?
So, while OTHER systems show their principles and techniques while fighting, we do NOT get that TYPICALLY from WC demos, do we?
Why?

Yes all in all I would agree. The problems we have would be that the general level of wing chun is quite low so many people have been brain washed into applications that just don't hold up in the real world. It's sad to say but it is very true. I have seen so much bad wing chun. I have taught at open seminars where 10 of the 40 guys are teachers and you wouldn't know who as they know nothing. The reason is that many of the teachers of these people have been calling themselves 'masters' and 'even 'grandmasters' LOL. so the public think after watching too many kung fu films that they must be the real deal and know what they are talking about. Its hard to show these people anything different as they can't believe the 'master' is wrong. That's why you see tons of demo wing chun as it adds to the dream world of dealing with fighters on the street. Big mistake.


I am trying to get people to think, test and check. That way wing chun will rise back up. to where it should be.