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Thread: How useful are the sandbags for leg and wrist?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironfist View Post
    i even recall hearing somewhere that doing your sport specific movement against resistance makes you slower. I know it feels faster when you take the weight away, but that's because there's less resistance.

    I can't remember the source. Does anyone know?

    The study i think it cited was that runners who run with parachutes behind them don't actually improve their speed because they're not running any faster, and because the motion with the added drag is different from a normal running motion so it's not training the correct movement. The article said to improve your speed past a certain point you have to run on a decline surface so that with the aid of gravity your legs are actually able to move faster and that will train the pathways to make your body move faster.

    Does that sound familiar to anyone? I may have some things confused here.


    Quote Originally Posted by ironfist View Post
    don't quote me on any of this.
    haaa!!!
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Sport-specific training is kind of nonsense anyway, though.

    Want to be better at shoulder throwing? Get big and strong and practice your shoulder throws.

    Doing some cable exercise that roughly approximates doing a shoulder throw isn't really helping any.

    It's kind of like those guys who use the golf club attachment on the pulley machine and think it's making their golf swing more powerful...

    There are two things that will make your golf swing more powerful:

    1) improving your ability to do the movement through increased efficiency, muscle memory, CNS adaptation, etc. (which you develop by doing the movement, not by doing an approximation of it with a pulley machine)

    2) by having stronger muscles that can generate more tension and contract faster

    The golf club attachment on the pulley machine does neither of those.

    Sport specific training doesn't help because it doesn't mimic the conditions of the sport. It mimics the conditions of doing something on the pulley machine.

    Look, is it better than nothing? Most likely. But is it optimal or ideal? Definitely not.

    Tiger Woods can drive a ball further than Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman is stronger than Tiger Woods.

    Imagine if Tiger had Ronnie's Strength, or if Ronnie played golf and had Tiger's muscle memory and technique.

    Figure out the muscles you need to do whatever it is you do and make them stronger.

    Two identical twin boxers have both been training for 2 years and have the same technical ability, speed, and level of skill. One of them can deadlift 500 pounds and bench 300, the other one does silly nonsense like punching with the cable machine.

    Who do you think can hit harder?
    Ill take that under advisement given your years of experience in throwing arts. . .what do you train in again?

    I don't give a **** if Darth Vader can play banjo better than Capt Kirk. Imaginary comparisons based on oversimplified scenarios are meaningless.

    I can't deadlift, squat and do weighted pull ups everyday (well, I could but I wouldn't last long) and I don't have the opportunity to spar or practice techniques with a partner everyday either.

    Maximal strength isn't everything and not every workout is about building max strength in the most efficient way. And golf has exactly ****all to do with strength.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    I even recall hearing somewhere that doing your sport specific movement against resistance makes you slower. I know it feels faster when you take the weight away, but that's because there's less resistance. Saying it "feels faster" is about as reliable as a butt dyno telling you that your car "feels faster" after you put a huge exhaust on it that screwed up your back pressure and actually reduced your horsepower. But it "feels faster."

    I can't remember the source. Does anyone know?

    The study I think it cited was that runners who run with parachutes behind them don't actually improve their speed because they're not running any faster, and because the motion with the added drag is different from a normal running motion so it's not training the correct movement. The article said to improve your speed past a certain point you have to run on a decline surface so that with the aid of gravity your legs are actually able to move faster and that will train the pathways to make your body move faster.

    Does that sound familiar to anyone? I may have some things confused here.

    Don't quote me on any of this.
    Yes, certain "sport specific" routines have been shown to make the athlete slower.
    Some have been shown to make athletes lose strength.
    Punching with hand weights is an example of a routine that works the wrong muscles in the punching movement.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #49
    What do you guys think about learning something like 石锁(shisuo)? Is it the kind of weight training that can be more useful for martial artists?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Yes, certain "sport specific" routines have been shown to make the athlete slower.
    Some have been shown to make athletes lose strength.
    Punching with hand weights is an example of a routine that works the wrong muscles in the punching movement.
    but all have been shown to make a lot of money for companies that produce the equipment and for trainers certified in the methods

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Ill take that under advisement given your years of experience in throwing arts. . .what do you train in again?

    I don't give a **** if Darth Vader can play banjo better than Capt Kirk. Imaginary comparisons based on oversimplified scenarios are meaningless.

    I can't deadlift, squat and do weighted pull ups everyday (well, I could but I wouldn't last long) and I don't have the opportunity to spar or practice techniques with a partner everyday either.
    You could DL, squat and do weighted pullups every day just fine if you keep the volume down. Well, 4-5 days a week is better than every day. Two sets of 5 for each exercise, 5 minutes rest minimum between sets. Your workout would be over in 30 minutes and you'd be much stronger than you are now.

    Maximal strength isn't everything and not every workout is about building max strength in the most efficient way. And golf has exactly ****all to do with strength.
    lol. What is a golfer using to move his muscles to hit the ball if not strength?

    Golf, just like every other non-endurance activity in the world, is based on two things:

    1) technique/neurological efficiency of the movement

    2) strength
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    but all have been shown to make a lot of money for companies that produce the equipment and for trainers certified in the methods
    You make an excellent point.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

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  8. #53
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    As IronFist already pointed out, "sport-specific" training is a gimmick.

    A good strength program can be done 3 times a week in under 45 minutes.

    Why waste time trying to get strong at one particular movement when you can do something like a squat or deadlift that makes your entire body stronger just as easily?
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  9. #54
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    I agree.

    Functional strength is what you want.
    You want to have strength in any application?
    Do resistance training.

    Engage the whole posterior chain in compound lifting.
    Engage the whole anterior chain in compound lifting.
    Do road work (yes, cardio helps a lot).
    Do core work. (more important than big chest and arms)

    Do your sport/art/whatever.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    You could DL, squat and do weighted pullups every day just fine if you keep the volume down. Well, 4-5 days a week is better than every day. Two sets of 5 for each exercise, 5 minutes rest minimum between sets. Your workout would be over in 30 minutes and you'd be much stronger than you are now.
    Spoken like a true novice.

    Apparently you don't play golf either.

    If strength is so important in golf why was a doughy 17 year old in contention in the US Open?



    Or 14 year old korean girls who can outdrive most men in their twenties?

  11. #56
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    Riddle me this batman.

    I know JamesC knows all about this.

    Assistance exercises. Many renowned powerlifting programs prescribe them. Identify a weakness, for instance the lower back (and by extension the hamstrings) in the squat, and target it with exercises that isolate that area to improve your overall performance. Weighted back extensions and reverse hypers. Or front squats to load the anterior chain more if your flexors and quads are the weak link. Exercises that are removed from the actual movements performed in competitions by varying degrees. By your guy's recycled logic those are all just gimmicks. I wonder how the estiminable Mr. Simmons would feel about that.

    You don't need certifications in kinestesiology to know that doing one legged squats balanced on a bosu ball while juggling kettlebells on fire is retarded. But it is pure intellectual laziness to paint everything in broad stroke knee jerk powerlifting forum regurgitations when common sense will suffice.

    "Durrrrr functional training is bad durrrrrr"

  12. #57
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    sounds like you are scared of big muscles.


    big, sweaty, oily pulsating muscles.

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Riddle me this batman.

    I know JamesC knows all about this.

    Assistance exercises. Many renowned powerlifting programs prescribe them. Identify a weakness, for instance the lower back (and by extension the hamstrings) in the squat, and target it with exercises that isolate that area to improve your overall performance. Weighted back extensions and reverse hypers. Or front squats to load the anterior chain more if your flexors and quads are the weak link. Exercises that are removed from the actual movements performed in competitions by varying degrees. By your guy's recycled logic those are all just gimmicks. I wonder how the estiminable Mr. Simmons would feel about that.

    You don't need certifications in kinestesiology to know that doing one legged squats balanced on a bosu ball while juggling kettlebells on fire is retarded. But it is pure intellectual laziness to paint everything in broad stroke knee jerk powerlifting forum regurgitations when common sense will suffice.

    "Durrrrr functional training is bad durrrrrr"
    I'm not sure why everything you post has to make you sound like such a ****. I can't tell if it is on purpose or not.

    No one is saying that assistance exercises are useless. That isn't the same thing as sport specific exercises touted by the personal trainwreckers down at the Y.

    You can't see that getting generally stronger with basic compound lifts is more useful than doing some arbitrary movement pattern that you hope will increase throwing capability?

    I'm more than happy to have a decent conversation about it because I don't want you to think that i'm some powerlifting elitist hellbent on converting everyone to doing squats and deadlifts as part of their strength training.

    If you can't have a civil conversation without trying to get a rise out of anyone that disagrees with you then i'm done with you.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    If strength is so important in golf why was a doughy 17 year old in contention in the US Open?
    Is this a serious question?

    I said strength is useful for increasing the distance you can hit the ball. I assume you know there is more to golf than just "who can hit it the furthest?" I never said strong muscles give you the ability to judge wind, distance, angle, or line up your putts better. Golf is not a strength-based sport.

    Or 14 year old korean girls who can outdrive most men in their twenties?
    I highly doubt a 14 year old Korean girl can outdrive a male golfer in his twenties who plays an equal amount of golf. If you're going to make comparisons make sure all else is equal.

    She may be able to outdrive a man in his twenties who who has never played golf before. I assume you know the reason why (hint: I mentioned it in a previous post).
    Last edited by IronFist; 06-28-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Sport-specific training is kind of nonsense anyway, ... Get big and strong ...
    My daughter has never done any bench press or squats in her life. She is not big and strong but she can do what I can't do.

    She travels all over the world and teaches her art in many different countries. As far as I know, both bench press and squarts are not part of her teaching program.

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    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-28-2012 at 04:28 PM.

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