Wing chun master class demo

[imperialtaichi]

Yes, I do. But WC is not the only style that I have trained. You can use WC Fu Shou to pull your opponent into you and punch him at the same time to cause a "head on collision" as A + B > A.

To push someone back and punch him at the same time (A - B < A) make no sense to me.

It's not just about how hard, but how effective. A smaller force on a falling opponent can often cause more damage on a stable, braced up opponent.

[YouKnowWho]

It's not just about how hard, but how effective. A smaller force on a falling opponent can often cause more damage on a stable, braced up opponent.

If you are talking about "push", I will agree with you. If I fall and you make me to fall faster, that's A + B > A (borrowing force). You depend on the hard ground to hurt me.

If you are talk about "punch", I will not agree with you. Because A - B < A.

If you stab your dagger at my chest when I move

- in toward you, your dagger may go through my body.
- back away from you, your dagger may just get into my skin.

[Happy Tiger]

John,

IMHO,

In the old time, Bong or hok bong or crane wing is a "third hand" of WCK. It can deliver different Jin . That is different to what we in general refer to bong today.
Leo's bong is not the bong define as today, but a old time crane Wing of WCK.

In Leo 's clip, his Jin is penetrating and controlling the shoulder bow directly. As you know, when the shoulder bow or joint got disrupted jam lifted. At least Half of the body is already being control and disintegrate or uproot.

This is the way of TST method. When I learned this way of control, it improved my ability to handle restless, agressive folks in security situations.TST can bring many along without striking at all by finding and controling ones balance and root by bong sau then led by tan

[Hendrik]

This is the way of TST method. When I learned this way of control, it improved my ability to handle restless, agressive folks in security situations.TST can bring many along without striking at all by finding and controling ones balance and root by bong sau then led by tan

There are lots of Great WCners around which we always can learn from, isnt it?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Shadow, you are using a choreographed movie scene as an example to illustrate effectiveness?

Your point? It's the same move

Wingchun is Wingchun Leo was doing the moves to show Wingchun

When I do it same effect of breaking the structure and jamming the shoulder

[Shadow_warrior8]

i saw one personal called me Siheng, he may be ip chun's or Samuel's student but he may not know i also got another wing chun Sifu.

Leo Au Yeung

Hi Sifu/ Siheng Leo

Sifu Samuel Kwok is my teacher and I teach in singapore
Sifu talks proudly about your great work with all the ip man movies and in the interviews he sends to us
Please share more 心法
We have learnt alot from your fight moves and the movies made by senior checkley sim- thank you very much
As Sifu tells us in Asia we are all one family
Best regards for the next movie- looking forward to it

[Shadow_warrior8]

If the discussion is about names, it would be quite pointless

It can be bong sao, with lan energy
It can be bong sao with redirecting energy
Depends on what you want to do, yield and larp da or break structure

We can do many different shapes of wingchun but its the yi intention of what we want that determines the energy

How badly did you want to hurt him or was it something you could walk away from without havent legal consequences.

[imperialtaichi]

Your point? It's the same move

Wingchun is Wingchun Leo was doing the moves to show Wingchun

When I do it same effect of breaking the structure and jamming the shoulder

Possibly misunderstanding from my part. If you are showing the movie clip to show how the move is supposed to be used, then you are right on. If I misread it as an illustration of knocking the guy flying back, I apologise. What works in movies may/may not work in real life as dramatically.

Demonstrations/tutorials can be very confusing. From Leo's demo clip, with the Bong/撐掌 (whatever you want to call it) stopping half way and supporting the opponent's arm, it will never work for a million years. But if Leo was trying to demonstrate the same move as in the movie (but may be stopping half way for demo purpose only?), then it is a very effectively technique.

Sifu Leo, were you showing the same technique in your demo clip as in the part of the movie SW8 is pointing at?

[Hendrik]

Possibly misunderstanding from my part. If you are showing the movie clip to show how the move is supposed to be used, then you are right on. If I misread it as an illustration of knocking the guy flying back, I apologise. What works in movies may/may not work in real life as dramatically.

Demonstrations/tutorials can be very confusing. From Leo's demo clip, with the Bong/撐掌 (whatever you want to call it) stopping half way and supporting the opponent's arm, it will never work for a million years. But if Leo was trying to demonstrate the same move as in the movie (but may be stopping half way for demo purpose only?), then it is a very effectively technique.

Sifu Leo, were you showing the same technique in your demo clip as in the part of the movie SW8 is pointing at?

IMHO,

Look at around 1.00 , it is clear on what it is. On how Leo issue force to the opponent shoulder bow or joint to disrupt and dis integrate structure . Take that as what it is , instead of what we think.

[JPinAZ]

Yes, I do. But WC is not the only style that I have trained. You can use WC Fu Shou to pull your opponent into you and punch him at the same time to cause a "head on collision" as A + B > A.

To push someone back and punch him at the same time (A - B < A) make no sense to me.

I'm with you on this to an extent.

IMO, it's not really about push or pull on the opponent, it's about angle/position, leverage control and effecting opponent's COG. If you already have proper range for all weapons (both hand's and feet) and have positional advantage along with leverage control and either a connection to opponent's COG (or influence on it) then you should be able to strike without push or pull. Of course, the opponent will not just stand there, but if you still have some connection/bridge to their COG, you should still be able to read and influence him thru the bridge (very slight push pull) and keep him in range to continue attack.

But to push them out of range doesn't make sense to me, and to pull them in closer then optimal range doesn't either. But if by push or pull one is referring to doing it slightly to influence the opponent's COG & position while maintaning proper range for striking, then I agree with both. Really depends how you define push/pull I guess.

[JPinAZ]

those are just the basic of

-------

center line is not define as a physical fix center line from the frontal.

but define as the imaginary axis run from the center of the top of the head or bai hui to the hui yin down ward.

You speak of 'just basic of' understanding, I'd say that's all you have of what centerline is. You are only just describing the first part - self centerline in relation to self body alignment and center of gravity. But this is just the beginning of the concept.
For someone that is a self-proclaimed inheritor of a lineage, if this is all you think it is then you don't even have a very deep understanding of the first concept of WCK...

I am just a no can do clown to push my YKT for health.
hahaha

We can tell that by reading your posts - at least you're finally being honest about it

[YouKnowWho]

Really depends how you define push/pull I guess.

Ther are many advantage to "pull". I just find this interest clip. In this clip, Sam Chin's strike at 0.05 is just to

- make contact,
- "pull" (not push) himeslf into his opponent (to close distance).

I think the "Iliqchuan bridging" and "WC sticky hand" should have a lot of "similiarity".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSAuR8cOmHM

[JPinAZ]

Ther are many advantage to "pull". I just find this interest clip. In this clip, Sam Chin's strike at 0.05 is just to

- make contact,
- "pull" (not push) himeslf into his opponent (to close distance).

I think the "Iliqchuan bridging" and "WC sticky hand" should be "similiar".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSAuR8cOmHM

I always like watching Sifu Sam in action, nice guy too!
I would say yes, in regards to bridging the gap, this could be a good idea on 'pull'. Later in the clip he breaks it down. He uses the first part of the action to cover the line and bridge with his opponent, and then the 'pull' is used to distort the opponent's COG and position while he enters. While from a WCK POV this could be looked at as chasing hands to an extend, in HFY we have a somewhat similar bridging application in our Cheurn Kiu Sau (long bridge) training called noi gwa sau. But it is typically use for an incoming attack vs. as a way to enter.

[YouKnowWho]

But it is typically use for an incoming attack vs. as a way to enter.

Do you think you can always change that to fit into "you attack first" modle? For example, when your opponent punches at you, you can use your Fu Shou. But if you punch first, when your opponent use Tan Shou, you can change your punching arm into Fu Shou. All you need is to use a fake punch to set up (as Sam demonstrated in his clip).

[imperialtaichi]

YKW, I am not disagreeing with you to better pull the opponent in than push the opponent out, but there are times we need to send the opponent out.

In KL22, ideally we want to "wrap up" the opponent so we can continue to smash him until he is neutralises. If you look at most of my clips that's what I do.

We also have techniques on holding the BJD with the blade facing inwards, for exactly the same reason; which is to cut the opponent in instead of cutting the opponent out. Although this method is rarely taught.