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Thread: Wing chun master class demo

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    it is not contentious because Turning has its place.

    it is contentious only if one doesnt know when to turn when not to turn.

    and that get into the " What, When, Why, How " details. If that is clear.
    WCK says only " come accept, goes return, let go trust forward." it doesnt limit one to a certain way.

    in fact, lots of today's so called center line facing concept is more SPM, BM, White CRane then WCK. Some WCK has evolved toward that direction.
    and this evolution changes the body structure of certain lineages because the strategy or tacting needs the physical to implement.



    instead of the old WCK of "come accept, goes return, let go trust forward"

    -------------------

    她採取道家「避實撃虛」後發先至。之陰柔路線。而不是少林「一力伏十會」力大 打力小快勝慢 。之陽剛路線。
    WCK using the daoist's "avoid the strong point attack the weak spot start later but arrive first" , soft liner principle. Instead of the shaolin's " strong power subdue every technics. Stronger and faster win", hard liner principle.


    所謂「避實擊虛」就是如常山之蛇。撃其頭則尾應。撃尾則頭應。撃腹則頭尾應。也因為如此。註定 了詠春拳「借 力打力。近身貼纒。善發寸勁」。
    Avoid strong point attack weak spot can be analogy as the snake . When it was attacked on the head, it avoids the head attack and counter with its tail. When it was attacked on the tail. It avoids the tail attact and counter with its tail. When it was attacked on the stomach. It avoids the stomach and counter with both the head and tail. WCK is using "borrow force to destroy force, close body stick reeling, inch power" to realize the principle of avoid strong point attack weak spot.
    ------------------------------

    and become a head on type of strategy.




    IMHO,

    Real life depend on ----- relative Force Handling, momentum handling, dependable strategy. and Force Handling, momentum handling depend on physical body development.

    there is no one rule fit all.

    We turn for a simple reason.....

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    We turn for a simple reason.....
    what reason?

  3. #33
    Wow 21 replies on an unexceptional video.

    The popcorn gallery is munching overtime.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I find statements like this quite funny but that's just me. Take the clip for what it is, sharing ideas with newcomers. Ideas should never be fixed at the beginning because we are not slaves to the art of Wing Chun. Didn't someone famous say that?
    Haha, why is that funny? He advocates giving up his position before even making contact - that is giving up both self centerline and A-to-B centerline needlessly (not to mentions space and timing). Without even a bridge or contact, how does he know he can't just deal with the energy on the original centerline?

    If this is an idea he shares with new comers, then IMO he is may be starting them off on a bad foot. Wing chun is about efficiency and economy of motion. How can you have those things when you start moving around before contact is even made (not to mention giving up space and any self reference point)

    Regarding the last bit of your post about being slaves to the art, not really sure what that has to do with anything I wrote (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunIan View Post
    Lol, because getting out of the way is always such a bad idea!
    Haha, I never said getting out of the way was bad. Sure there are times we have to move, but advocating 'getting out of the way' by running from the attack before even trying to engage it only gives up space, centerline and gives the opponent more time to react to your shift.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunIan View Post
    FWIW he changes the centreline by turning (others call it shifting) he doesn't give up the centreline at any point, he actually takes control of it. Draw a line connecting the jic seen of them both and then play the clip through following that line and look again to see who has control of it
    Maybe we have 2 very different ideas on what centerline is.

    To me, Centerline, first and foremost is about maintaining your own upright position/COG, or 'self centerline'. By shifting without even having made contact he is giving this up. Secondly, centerline is about a line between A point and B point. You can't have both points moving and have any consistant centerline between anything.

    Besides, why move if you don't have too? IMO he doesn't 'change the line' when he moves before contact, he moves off of it and gives it up by giving up is reference point. He does very little to change the attacker's position, line of attack or COG when he does this - all he does is give all of his up by shifting 'off the line'.
    While I have my dissagreements with some of what he does, alan orrs latest video 2 threads (clips #6 and #7) do a fair job of describing this and why you shouldn't and don't need to shift

    Now, I have no problem with having to change the line if you are losing space, facing and/or structure! I'm just saying that to do it prior to any contact means you haven't even made an attempt to deal with what is coming at you on the A-to-B Centerline.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    Wow 21 replies on an unexceptional video.

    The popcorn gallery is munching overtime.
    Pass the soda!!
    "The ultimate nature of survival is maintaining your balance"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    Wow 21 replies on an unexceptional video.

    The popcorn gallery is munching overtime.
    With you there Joy.... though im hardly one to criticise long winded rants

    I turned it of after the 1st technique as well as did one of the other posters as well.

    At the end of the day what did he achieve? He had turned of centre, was not controlling the limb and was out of range to strike.

    It was trading in my eyes

  7. #37
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    I would love you to share your wisdom in real combat on the above case as in the demo situation.


    I hope you can give me, a person who doesnt have the fighting experience according to you, and the WCK public a great lesson here, in real life situation details. not some fuzzy, just do it generalization. instead of What Why When How. details which is expected from the real pro.


    however, if you cannot, perhaps it is the time you take back your words or cliam as some one proven in the combat world such as in the above Alan's thread, and not trying to be an expert in WCK where you are not.

    That is because you dont even have real life experience as a theory guy like me. hahaha
    [/QUOTE]

    Youre not a fighter. You might have been decades ago in some Karate matches but that doesnt change what you are now.

    Some guy sitting in his house not training, not teaching and preaching like the messiah

    And to critcise YKW who from what i understand does everything you dont do (ie fight, train and spar) beggers belief.

    Do i need to ask you those questions again??

  8. #38
    Youre not a fighter. You might have been decades ago in some Karate matches but that doesnt change what you are now.

    Some guy sitting in his house not training, not teaching and preaching like the messiah

    And to critcise YKW who from what i understand does everything you dont do (ie fight, train and spar) beggers belief.

    Do i need to ask you those questions again??[/QUOTE]




    ok, great!

    this is another top figther,

    Since you are sooo great why dont you answer that same questions I have post. let us who is not a figher according to you learn your great wisdom and superiority?

    Go a head please!!!



    But if you and YKW cannot give a WING CHUN satisfaction answer. then may be you need to learn to not post here for trolling. hahahaha


    Fun time. and I am waiting.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 06-27-2012 at 02:56 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    but Wing Chun Kuen Kuit also says " he comes on top capture his below."
    At 1.20 in that clip, A's elbow has passed B's forearm. A's elbow dropping will have a lot of power. It cannot be stopped by just B's fore-arm Bong Shou.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-27-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    At 1.20 in that clip, A's elbow has passed B's forearm. A's elbow dropping will have a lot of power. It cannot be stopped by just B's fore-arm Bong Shou.
    John,

    please answer my full question.

    if you cant answer it then you dont know and if you dont know you cant coach fighter. because you have no experience. see, WCK is not Shuai Chiao. that simple, isnt it?

    here i give you the benifit of doutb on your big claim, if you screw it than it is not my issue.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 06-27-2012 at 03:07 PM.

  11. #41
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    ok, great!

    this is another top figther,

    Since you are sooo great why dont you answer that same questions I have post. let us who is not a figher according to you learn your great wisdom and superiority?

    Go a head please!!!



    But if you and YKW cannot give a WING CHUN satisfaction answer. then may be you need to learn to not post here for trolling. hahahaha


    Fun time. and I am waiting
    Id engage my snake engine, which manifested in my emei region, then let my 5
    layers take control which allowed the ghosts of 1850 WC to be as one with my yik kam fists of death.

    Oh sorry... that would be you!

    Watch this clown http://vimeo.com/44004216 particularly around 18.30 and 27.30 that might give you and insight how to actually train for and use WC in a fight

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Id engage my snake engine, which manifested in my emei region, then let my 5
    layers take control which allowed the ghosts of 1850 WC to be as one with my yik kam fists of death.
    Post of the year!!
    "The ultimate nature of survival is maintaining your balance"

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Now, I have no problem with having to change the line if you are losing space, facing and/or structure! I'm just saying that to do it prior to any contact means you haven't even made an attempt to deal with what is coming at you on the A-to-B Centerline.
    If one can sidestep, shift. duck, fade, etc prior to contact, and attack successfully, then the " what is coming at you on the A-to-B Centerline" has been dealt with already.

    This portion of your post sounds as if you wish to always create a bridge.

    Just my $.02.

    Disregard if that was not the intended meaning.

    Now pass me the gummy bears.
    "The ultimate nature of survival is maintaining your balance"

  14. #44
    so, both YKW and GlennR do not have the answer about the demo clip?

    if so, they better go to learn from the sifu in the video.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertwingchun2 View Post
    If one can sidestep, shift. duck, fade, etc prior to contact, and attack successfully, then the " what is coming at you on the A-to-B Centerline" has been dealt with already.
    One can do all sorts of things to deal with an attack. most of what you listed is what I did in boxing all the time.
    Question is, are you breaking WCK principles to do it or not? If you dodge, duck, sidestep, etc without even attempting to deal with the attack on CL, then you are breaking WCK's most primary and basic concept and IMO not really doing WCK, even if you happen to use a bong sau shaped technique while you do it

    Quote Originally Posted by desertwingchun2 View Post
    This portion of your post sounds as if you wish to always create a bridge.

    Just my $.02.

    Disregard if that was not the intended meaning.

    Now pass me the gummy bears.
    Nope, not wishing to bridge at all (unles I am implying a specific strategy that calls for it in rare cases).
    My main goal is occupy space, punch'em in the face If a bridge happens along the way, then I deal with it. Or if I have to adjust due to gate coverage, I do it. But my main goal is to do this on the A-B Centerline first without compramising my position or space & structure. If I can no longer do that, then I am forced to move.

    (and I do appreciate the disregard comment and giving me the courtesy of posibbly misunderstanding me!)
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 06-27-2012 at 05:02 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

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