Banned
It is rude to ask a teacher to spar if he is mostly teaching forms and drills. I truly believe this. If a school is a fighting school, as in they spar and or compete, you can ask to spar(striking sparring I mean) IF the teacher also competes or trains with the students.
If the guy is aging, does not look like he has sparred in years, etc it is rude to ask.
Grappling sparring is not as dangerous and therefore the blackbelt teacher should be sparring with his students.
What do you guys think?
Itinerant practitioner
Why is it rude?
Not at all.
Attitude and intention is what defines rudeness, not asking a question.
My teacher would spar with me and all senior students.
But, it's about milk to the babes and meat to the strong.
I don't like sparring with kids for instance. It's ridiculous for a 48 yr old man to be sparring with a 15 year old. It's better if they are least 25 or over. That way they have some time in and some skill developed and you aren't trashing them completely and they get to learn and validate what they have already learned.
That's normal.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Banned
Originally Posted by David Jamieson
Why is it rude?
Not at all.
Attitude and intention is what defines rudeness, not asking a question.
My teacher would spar with me and all senior students.
But, it's about milk to the babes and meat to the strong.
I don't like sparring with kids for instance. It's ridiculous for a 48 yr old man to be sparring with a 15 year old. It's better if they are least 25 or over. That way they have some time in and some skill developed and you aren't trashing them completely and they get to learn and validate what they have already learned.
That's normal.
So if a teacher is expected to spar with his students will he look weak if he says no?
A teacher that spars with his students should not preclude the 15 year olds unless he has juniors to help him with teaching.
Banned
Why is it rude?
Not at all.
Attitude and intention is what defines rudeness, not asking a question.
My teacher would spar with me and all senior students.
But, it's about milk to the babes and meat to the strong.
I don't like sparring with kids for instance. It's ridiculous for a 48 yr old man to be sparring with a 15 year old. It's better if they are least 25 or over. That way they have some time in and some skill developed and you aren't trashing them completely and they get to learn and validate what they have already learned.
That's normal.
I would also add that it is often hard to judge intention from a question so being psychic is not relevant to this discussion.
If I bring the sports illustrated swim suit edition to my job with ye intention of just enjoying myself I can be brought up on sexual harassment by a female. This situation just happened! So intention does not matter. The hard evidence is all we can judge.
Registered User
Only if your pants are down when you ask him...that would be rude.
"if its ok for shaolin wuseng to break his vow then its ok for me to sneak behind your house at 3 in the morning and bang your dog if buddha is in your heart then its ok"-Bawang
"I get what you have said in the past, but we are not intuitive fighters. As instinctive fighters, we can chuck spears and claw and bite. We are not instinctively god at punching or kicking."-Drake
"Princess? LMAO hammer you are such a pr^t"-Frost
Itinerant practitioner
I don't know, the caveat would depend on the teachers ...uh..preferences. lol
I think intention and attitude are pretty clear by tone and posture.
for instance, someone walking in off the street and asking to spar can go eat a bag of dicks. I don't know if he's a face eating gay zombie or not, so, that is piss poor attitude and that guy gets shown the door.
But a student who wants to test his mettle? Yep for sure. That's part and parcel. If it's a kid, he can test his mettle against someone comparable. It's pretty standard thinking on this no matter where you go.
Except in some cases where you have people who are unclear on the concept of learning theory, how to properly teach etc. There's all kinds of yahoo weirdos out there in the martial arts world thanks to the fact you can't regulate it all under one blanket.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
If the purpose of sparring is learning then it's OK but the teacher should suggest it not the student. My teacher only started to spar with me last year and before that it was mostly my shixiongs who would do that and to be honest I am afraid when he suggests it as he is always merciless. I don't think anyone with less than a few years of experience could take something like that.
I think at least in China being polite to your seniors especially your teacher and waiting for him to suggest it is very important. In any caseit should be only for the purpose of learning not showing off your power because they take it very seriously. I saw an example of rudeness a few weeks ago. A big French guy was passing by where we practice and then started showing off some fancy kicks in the middle of our class. Then he asked my teacher in broken Chinese to spar with him and even tried to charge. My teacher said that he couldn't and just ignored him then one of the senior students went to him and played with him without hitting him hard.
I don't think that French guy meant to be rude but probably he didn't understand the Chinese ethics.
Another example was in a MA seminar where many people from different styles where present. After dinner a young Chinese guy from our style (not from my teacher) went to a bagua master and asked him politely to spar with him so that he could learn. The bagua guy took it at face value and knocked him out in a few seconds.
Registered User
Both examples are people being rude. The French guy; well, he's French what do you expect? As far as the Chinese kid it is rude to walk up to a stranger and ask them to spar. At least get to know them first because if not you come across arrogant and disrespectful.
It's perfectly acceptable to ask a coach to spar as long as he's still an active coach. If the coach is 50-60+ years old and has retired from competing and even sparring then yes it's rude. Plus you look like a tool for trying to spar the old guy.
Me personally, if my coaches don't make the effort to jump into class and spar with us I don't care. I almost prefer it, because now he/she can focus on teaching me. There is always someone better to kick my butt, keep me in check and to challenge me. So It's not necessary for me to ask my coaches to spar.
If a student is finding that they are not being challenged they need to talk to their coach. If a solution can't be arranged maybe the student needs to seek out another school.
Banned
The French guy sounds like an idiot.
The fact that the senior "played" with him instead of sparring is telling. Internal people focus on health and do not spar. I studied with a renowned internal teacher for awhile and we never sparred. The senior instructors did not spar either because they all talked about sparring being impossible since internal is about shapes. If I punched or of them in the face they would tell me I am not doing internal correctly.
Registered User
Teaching is difficult even under the best conditions. Respect for a teacher is paramount if the student is to take him very seriously. To ask to spar with him is a challenge of his skills, and in my opinion a direct insult. If a student feels he can beat you, he will not show the respect he should and will second guess you at every turn.
Many years ago I was asked to teach two young brothers. I asked for and got a large sum of money for 2 years of instruction. In that two years they would either learn it or not, but that was strictly up to them. One of the young men, the older one, began to question my ability to fight. He told his brother that he felt he could take me, and he would argue points with me. I would not argue, so I agreed to give him a shot at me. I easily beat him to the ground. I was probably too rough with him, but I had to reinstill that needed respect or I would have to send him home for good. At that point he could no longer learn without it.
If your sifu comes to you and says, Lets Spar, fine. Show respect in doing so. But I would never approach him with that request.
Jackie Lee
Itinerant practitioner
Where was that? So why'd you stay?
Why not just move on to somewhere that suited you instead of staying somewhere you complain about?
You read like someone who would get more out of western boxing or some kind of wrestling match type stuff moreso than trying to get into a chinese martial art.
Kung Fu is good for you.
the ass assassin
it is rude to spar with a teacher if he is A POOSY
A GIANT HAIRY POOSY
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
Registered User
The day when you have reached to your 80 years old birthday, you will understand why it's not a good idea for a 20 years old student to ask an 80 years old teacher to spar.
We will all get old and get sick someday.
Banned
I have left. I just dislike myths of internal energy and structure being enough to survive a conflict being perpetuated.
the ass assassin
i also dont liek the internal lies and scams, but it sounds like your anoos is severely sore from being passively bullied by " internal" people.
if they used to put you down and demean you to make themselves feel superior and special, dont cry about it. go back to their class, and tell them you fuk their mothers.
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
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