What is qi?

[GlennR]

Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

Anyone who has done qigong formally from a proper teacher, will know what is qi, it is a discovery of your energy- hence it needs personal revelation

All this reports, videos, documents, books all serve to explain something you already do, or know.

Do you need to read why you breath? Or swallow saliva?

Yes chinese are supertitious, but then again so are those who call everything occult, new age, witch craft.

How do we look at hermetics? Is that superstition? Or fact?

Well we might not need to but its very easy ,scientifically ,why and how we do.

Is this TCM the same TCM that uses tigers *****'s for virility and rhino's horn for the same????

Worth wiping out entire species is it for superstitious claptrap?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Well we might not need to but its very easy ,scientifically ,why and how we do.

Is this TCM the same TCM that uses tigers *****'s for virility and rhino's horn for the same????

Worth wiping out entire species is it for superstitious claptrap?

qigong and tcm are they the same practice? even the name is different

is taking xrays = Orthopedic work? are they identical?

To quote senior hendrik in his words he says often " we must be clear" hence we must be clear tiger, rhino is it the same as wolfberry? ginseng? what does what?

It is common sense to look into cultures with thousands of years of study, some serious study and comments
Practices that came from india, still there, practices in china, tibet, and even in japan and korea.
And in the west they have hermetics practice.

There are many books on this by doctors, scientist in english
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Medicin.../dp/1585426504
http://www.amazon.com/Vibrational-Me.../dp/1879181584

All this came from research of this so called superstitious culture and practice and explained scientitifically.

[GlennR]

qigong and tcm are they the same practice? even the name is different

Hey, im not the sopposed expert. Are you telling me they arent connected?

is taking xrays = Orthopedic work? are they identical?

Not at all, but one can happily support the other

It warrents to look into cultures with thousands of years of study, some serious study and comments
Practices that came from india, still there, practices in china, tibet, and even in japan and korea.

Then why is Asia embracing western culture and medicine? Go to Beijing hospital with a life threatening problem and i bet they attempt to fix it with western medicine

There are many books on this by doctors, scientist in english
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Medicin.../dp/1585426504
http://www.amazon.com/Vibrational-Me.../dp/1879181584

Mate, theyre trying to make money selling a book, they are not scientific journals in any shape or form

All this came from research of this so called superstitious culture and practice and explained scientitifically.

And it preys on people trying to justify eastern practices with western approval

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hey, im not the sopposed expert. Are you telling me they arent connected?

Not at all, but one can happily support the other

Then why is Asia embracing western culture and medicine? Go to Beijing hospital with a life threatening problem and i bet they attempt to fix it with western medicine

Mate, theyre trying to make money selling a book, they are not scientific journals in any shape or form

And it preys on people trying to justify eastern practices with western approval

Connection and the same thing are totally different, we are talking about qigong, you are talking about rhinos and tigers.

got to a hospital in beijing and see if they have accupuncture and qigong or any hospital in china.
Ask the chinese goverment if they share your skeptism in qigong

For that matter of connection
go to malaysia and see if qigong is taught by doctors to cancer patients, ask the doctors who pays for these qigong masters to teach them and if its the malaysian goverment or singapore if they use accupuncture for stroke patients.

I am most happy to take you up on your bet, that cancer is treated with qigong and tcm in so called western hospitals as a important part of the treatment. What do you have to wager it on?

As for journals, its funny that people ask for western science to prove it, and when the scientists and doctors do, the same people who ask for proof, mock the proof.
No further need to post links for you, if you are truely sincere, and the cup is empty, you will find what you seek, if its full, well it is what it is

I agree with you, you are no expert, did you have more to contribute in the discussion of qigong?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Here's your western cures and what it does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7k-GlLhpp8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXg0D...eature=related

[GlennR]

Connection and the same thing are totally different, we are talking about qigong, you are talking about rhinos and tigers.

,

TCM, from my poor western perspective, bases its theories around the belief of qi.... yes?

TCM also uses body parts of animals in the belief it can cure ailments.... yes?

got to a hospital in beijing and see if they have accupuncture and qigong or any hospital in china.
Ask the chinese goverment if they share your skeptism in qigong

So if you are dragged in having a heart attack they will prescribe acupuncture and some quigong??

For that matter of connection
go to malaysia and see if qigong is taught by doctors to cancer patients,

So it works better than chemotherapy?

ask the doctors who pays for these qigong masters to teach them and if its the malaysian goverment or singapore if they use accupuncture for stroke patients.

Im glad to hear they think it will benefit their patients

I am most happy to take you up on your bet, that cancer is treated with qigong and tcm in so called western hospitals as a important part of the treatment. What do you have to wager it on?

No problem. So you are now saying that quigong and TCM ARE connected. Before we have that bet can you conform this..... tigers and rhinos hey

As for journals, its funny that people ask for western science to prove it, and when the scientists and doctors do, the same people who ask for proof, mock the proof.
No further need to post links for you, if you are truely sincere, and the cup is empty, you will find what you seek, if its full, well it is what it is

If i thought it would make me healthier, give better physical outcomes, make me live longer and basically be a better person id jump at it.
You directing me at self help books and "your senior" is hardly going to sway me

I agree with you, you are no expert, did you have more to contribute in the discussion of qigong?

So this is one of these threads where you can "contribute" as long as that doesnt mean question what you are saying?
Cultish much me-thinks

[Vajramusti]

Well we might not need to but its very easy ,scientifically ,why and how we do.

Is this TCM the same TCM that uses tigers *****'s for virility and rhino's horn for the same????

Worth wiping out entire species is it for superstitious claptrap?

-------------------------------------------

or kill a bear for it's bile!

[SimonM]

I really like this article on the potential of qi and the iinadequacies of current scientific viewpoints to understand the true nature.
Dealing with the issue of incomplete understanding is not easy now or then.
Not long ago all was 'magic'. Science of any sort is a way to understand and accept the mysteries around us. The problem now is the rules. They seem pretty firm but may not be. The main danger is making assumptions about the things we don't understand. We see patterns where none should be.Something is a cause. The seeker accepts this with out too much judgement. The understanding of qi in the end may be uncovered by a completely unrealated study.
The one thing I try to do personally is not to become 'diseased' by the color of my own perseption. The reason qi is hard to describe but for it's effects? That is the question. Either it just doen't exist at all. Or it is a type of scientific process which is not totally in our direct experience. Both possibilities are exiting and leave an open trail of discovery and refinement.

Claiming to cite an experiment which used double-blind results is all well and good but have those results been demonstrated to be replicable in experiments conducted by unrelated organizations?

This document didn't actually cite any specific papers which makes it hard to adjudicate the claims put forward - basically we are still asked to accept the findings on faith.

[Happy Tiger]

Claiming to cite an experiment which used double-blind results is all well and good but have those results been demonstrated to be replicable in experiments conducted by unrelated organizations?

This document didn't actually cite any specific papers which makes it hard to adjudicate the claims put forward - basically we are still asked to accept the findings on faith.

Yes, well that's sorta my point. I liken qi somewhat to gravity in our understanding. Allthough gravity seems obvious, it is the most mysterious of the forces. Our explanation of it I suppose is heuristic to suffice. We see and do things with what it does but we still don't understand what it is or why it seems different to the other forces. Some of the greatest mysteries in phisics have to do with gravity. This makes me wonder, as is my suspicion with qi, that part of the answer is outside our direct experience. As cool and deep as our understanding of the effects of qi a
re, when we understand what it is, it may very well be revolutionary.
I know qi is. Am I the only one around here that is dying to know all the other W,s...on a little side bar regarding gravity. It may be the ancient Tibetans understood it better then the rest with their knowledge and manipulation of harmonics. Like the Hutcheson effect. I appreciate your efforts to keep it real. I am an artist/ technician in the motion picture industry. We use a number of modern sciences to execute our craft.We kinda have to be half Tesla half Edison in our approach to solving
problems all the while integrating with art and possibilities. I must admit, my head likes the clouds more than some, but it doesn't mean I don't admire and utilise the practical truths we have in front of us.

[SimonM]

I'm sorry but your analogy is flawed.

We can demonstrate in a replicable and falsifiable manner that the phenomenon of gravity exists and can be measured.

We cannot do that with qi. For that matter we can't even agree on a basic definition.

[Happy Tiger]

qigong and tcm are they the same practice? even the name is different

is taking xrays = Orthopedic work? are they identical?

To quote senior hendrik in his words he says often " we must be clear" hence we must be clear tiger, rhino is it the same as wolfberry? ginseng? what does what?

It is common sense to look into cultures with thousands of years of study, some serious study and comments
Practices that came from india, still there, practices in china, tibet, and even in japan and korea.
And in the west they have hermetics practice.

There are many books on this by doctors, scientist in english
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Medicin.../dp/1585426504
http://www.amazon.com/Vibrational-Me.../dp/1879181584

All this came from research of this so called superstitious culture and practice and explained scientitifically.

Sorry about the 'superstitious culture' thing Shadow Warrior. As I mentioned in an earlier post Chinese are every bit as scientific as any other culture. I think I might have mis understood Hendriks post. He seems to shift some times in this discussion between the west being too susceptible to 'new age magic' and the 'west' being to needy of scientific why of everything. I might be reading him wrong. I was raised in a chinese home and am myself some what superstitious.
My wife and I observed many 'superstitious' traditions at our wedding.




P.S. The fellow with long hair on the far left of the bridal sedan is my sifu. Sifu Wood Nan.
Not only a VT master but an expert in TCM and hei gong.

[Happy Tiger]

I'm sorry but your analogy is flawed.

We can demonstrate in a replicable and falsifiable manner that the phenomenon of gravity exists and can be measured.

We cannot do that with qi. For that matter we can't even agree on a basic definition.

It all stretches out before us...
P.S. I didn't say it was an exact anology :P

[Scott R. Brown]

Keep in mind that this philosophical field of study from an ancient culture that supposedly knows more about a possibly imaginary force/substance than apparently any other culture on the planet ever has, promoted the consumption of mercury pills in order to reach immortality and believed in imaginary islands off the coast of the Chinese mainland, amongst other foolish things! But we can cherry pick what we want to believe that they taught, and those things they were spot on about?

It is like the dingbats who think the Maya were so wise they could predict the end of the world in 2012, but couldn't figure out that human sacrifice is inhumane and a superstitious practice that does nothing to contribute to the answer of their prayers or appease their imaginary gods!

[SimonM]

P.S. I didn't say it was an exact anology :P

No, it is actually, technically, a false analogy.

[Lucas]

Keep in mind that this philosophical field of study from an ancient culture that supposedly knows more about a possibly imaginary force/substance than apparently any other culture on the planet ever has, promoted the consumption of mercury pills in order to reach immortality and believed in imaginary islands off the coast of the Chinese mainland, amongst other foolish things! But we can cherry pick what we want to believe that they taught, and those things they were spot on about?

It is like the dingbats who think the Maya were so wise they could predict the end of the world in 2012, but couldn't figure out that human sacrifice is inhumane and a superstitious practice that does nothing to contribute to the answer of their prayers or appease their imaginary gods!

how do you know the human sacrafice wasnt pivotal to predicting the end of the world?!?!

or did they just run out of room on the calendar stone?