What is qi?

[Paddington]

That sound a lot like some one saying, " that presentation wasn't about Jesus Christ and our Lord God but new age magic like Buddhism, Ying Yangs and other magic mumbo jumbo. any description must be filtered first thru the shape allready assumed. Dangerous thinking IMHO

Which video are you referring to? I take it it is not the one Robinhood posted?


EDIT: So looking at Henrik's post I guess he is referring to that video as it is the only video posted before his comments. TBH, I think Henrik has not understood what John is saying. To say "The presentation of the above video by the doctor is not about Qi but new age believe" is highly disingenuous. From one perspective it implies John is propagating new age belief when in matter of fact it is new age beliefs that John is challenging.

When Henrik then says "One needs to define qi as the energy which makes tcm accupuncture and herbal work. Instead of getting into all kind of magic force, guidance..Fung shui ....fortunte telling....ect", I have to take issue. As I said, John does not get into 'magic forces etc', to say so is to misrepresent him and, indeed, to argue the opposite to him.

John is drawing from academic and scientific literature BTW, that includes scans of neurological and central nervous system activity, experiments and trials etc. What's more that a lot of this research has gone through a peer review process; that is subjected to critique and falsification.

Of course, Henrik might not be referring to John's lecture or that video but looking at the post order and the way Henrik has constructed his post, it does read as I have read it.

[Happy Tiger]

A good, up to date paper on the subject
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...w38ftssHN5lyfg

I really like this article on the potential of qi and the iinadequacies of current scientific viewpoints to understand the true nature.
Dealing with the issue of incomplete understanding is not easy now or then.
Not long ago all was 'magic'. Science of any sort is a way to understand and accept the mysteries around us. The problem now is the rules. They seem pretty firm but may not be. The main danger is making assumptions about the things we don't understand. We see patterns where none should be.Something is a cause. The seeker accepts this with out too much judgement. The understanding of qi in the end may be uncovered by a completely unrealated study.
The one thing I try to do personally is not to become 'diseased' by the color of my own perseption. The reason qi is hard to describe but for it's effects? That is the question. Either it just doen't exist at all. Or it is a type of scientific process which is not totally in our direct experience. Both possibilities are exiting and leave an open trail of discovery and refinement.

[Paddington]

Not a big fan of that paper I am afraid, not a single proper reference in it and no way for me to check the claims made. I ran a few of the names via an academic databases and did not get any hits with regards to papers published in peer reviewed journals.

If I, with my limited knowledge, can spot errors in that paper then, well, I doubt its authenticity. Some of what the paper claims is just patently false. For example, consider this paragraph.

"Physics teaches us that the speed of light is the fastest velocity at which one may transmit material, energy, and information. Are there any material phenomena that can travel faster than the speed of light? From a qigong perspective, it seems very possible. But what kind of energy can make such a speed possible? This is difficult to assess. At the moment, modern scientific means still cannot discover or practically measure such an energy form. It is likely that the speed of thought is faster than the speed of light, but how can this be measured? How can this phenomenon be captured?"

So many errors here that I don't know where to start. . I am quick witted but my wit faster than the speed of light? I think not given the mechanisms involved in discursive cognition, aka thought.

[Happy Tiger]

Not a big fan of that paper I am afraid, not a single proper reference in it and no way for me to check the claims made. I ran a few of the names via an academic databases and did not get any hits with regards to papers published in peer reviewed journals.

If I, with my limited knowledge, can spot errors in that paper then, well, I doubt its authenticity. Some of what the paper claims is just patently false. For example, consider this paragraph.

"Physics teaches us that the speed of light is the fastest velocity at which one may transmit material, energy, and information. Are there any material phenomena that can travel faster than the speed of light? From a qigong perspective, it seems very possible. But what kind of energy can make such a speed possible? This is difficult to assess. At the moment, modern scientific means still cannot discover or practically measure such an energy form. It is likely that the speed of thought is faster than the speed of light, but how can this be measured? How can this phenomenon be captured?"

So many errors here that I don't know where to start. . I am quick witted but my wit faster than the speed of light? I think not given the mechanisms involved in discursive cognition, aka thought.

I understand your point of view

[Hendrik]

Which video are you referring to? I take it it is not the one Robinhood posted?


EDIT: So looking at Henrik's post I guess he is referring to that video as it is the only video posted before his comments. TBH, I think Henrik has not understood what John is saying. To say "The presentation of the above video by the doctor is not about Qi but new age believe" is highly disingenuous. From one perspective it implies John is propagating new age belief when in matter of fact it is new age beliefs that John is challenging.

When Henrik then says "One needs to define qi as the energy which makes tcm accupuncture and herbal work. Instead of getting into all kind of magic force, guidance..Fung shui ....fortunte telling....ect", I have to take issue. As I said, John does not get into 'magic forces etc', to say so is to misrepresent him and, indeed, to argue the opposite to him.

John is drawing from academic and scientific literature BTW, that includes scans of neurological and central nervous system activity, experiments and trials etc. What's more that a lot of this research has gone through a peer review process; that is subjected to critique and falsification.

Of course, Henrik might not be referring to John's lecture or that video but looking at the post order and the way Henrik has constructed his post, it does read as I have read it.

My view is, to talk about qi , it is better to bound the qi in the tcm boundary. Chinese have a tendency to called everything qi. And todays new age use the term qi even to the extend of the grace of God.

There will be no end And all confusion to talk about qi like that.

[trubblman]

What is it?

Simple explanations only please.

I think I know what it is but I would like to hear what other people think it is also. I will post my definition after a few replies.

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of Qi. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of Qi. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."

[Robinhood]

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of Qi. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of Qi. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."

A ........ J e t i ......... you will Become !

[Hendrik]

I really never understand why is the following type of public video on qi doesnt seem to get translate into english and shown in the west. Why is the west seems to be purposely disapprove and blocking information ? But then there are all kind of New Age stuffs which is not as well verified but popular.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzQ3ODYzMTI4.html

[Happy Tiger]

I really never understand why is the following type of public video on qi doesnt seem to get translate into english and shown in the west. Why is the west seems to be purposely disapprove and blocking information ? But then there are all kind of New Age stuffs which is not as well verified but popular.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzQ3ODYzMTI4.html

Some of the most extreme dissertations on the nature of qi I've read come from chinese research. Chinese cultue is very superstitious.

[Hendrik]

Some of the most extreme dissertations on the nature of qi I've read come from chinese research.

Yup. And why is the qi view people has been practiced for hundreds of years with result not presented? I think it is marketing issue too.


One screw up the Chinese has get into Is to allow all kind of cult put under the name of qigong.

Thus, I personlly, read only the tcm related stuffs, and ignore those cult and magic stuffs .

[anerlich]

One needs to define qi as the energy which makes tcm accupuncture and herbal work.

That's a circular definition, i.e. not a definition at all.

What makes TCM, accupuncture and herbal [medicine] work? Qi.
What's Qi? The stuff that makes TCM, accupuncture and herbal [medicine] work.

[anerlich]

It is an academic conference so one would expect the use of technical language and a certain level of depth. Most things in life, Qi included, just cannot, IMO at least, be explained and investigated in a few lines or as bullet points. I don't find your analogy with a video designed for lay consumption of the higgs, comparable to a lecture designed for those researching cognitive and neurological functions.

Sigh. I guess I'm going to have to listen to the whole turgid exercise. If it turns out to be pompous crap, as I expect, your name is MUD, bro.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Some of the most extreme dissertations on the nature of qi I've read come from chinese research. Chinese cultue is very superstitious.

Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

Anyone who has done qigong formally from a proper teacher, will know what is qi, it is a discovery of your energy- hence it needs personal revelation

All this reports, videos, documents, books all serve to explain something you already do, or know.

Do you need to read why you breath? Or swallow saliva?

Yes chinese are supertitious, but then again so are those who call everything occult, new age, witch craft.

How do we look at hermetics? Is that superstition? Or fact?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Yup. And why is the qi view people has been practiced for hundreds of years with result not presented? I think it is marketing issue too.


One screw up the Chinese has get into Is to allow all kind of cult put under the name of qigong.

Thus, I personlly, read only the tcm related stuffs, and ignore those cult and magic stuffs .

nice video senior

[Shadow_warrior8]

This video is excellent too

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzUzOTQ3NTY4.html