Coaching/teaching is the death of your personal skills

[MightyB]

I think there may be a very hard transition for many and that is because while everyone THINKS they fight, when they actually DO start, it is a rude awakening.
Not the getting hit mind you, that's the easy part to overcome.
Its the realization that the hard work you put in has NOT equipped you to fight with your MA vs an opponent that wants to take your head off and skull hump you.
And its the realization that to unlock the key to making your TCMA ( or any MA) work "for real" involved actually fighting MORE than anything else.

This is really a profound and killer statement that I hope people take to heart, "It's the realization that the hard work you put in has NOT equipped you to fight"

----

I don't have the answers - I'm going to my Judo club tonight and tomorrow night it's off to wrastle with the local MMA tough guys in their gym.

[MasterKiller]

No there really isn't. This is how I can defend my position. I can teach a person with no MA experience everything they need to be a black belt in Judo. I can even teach them how to win in Judo competition and have them compete on the mat regularly.

If I were to take them into a MMA ring with only the above Judo only experience... they may do OK - but my hunch is they'd get slaughtered if they were to face a person who only practiced MMA and competed in the same amount of events as the Judoka (the Judoka only doing Judo events and the MMA person only doing MMA events).

And...? That's called specificity.

Put a Kickboxer in a Judo match you get the same results.

But there is plenty of Judo in MMA, nonetheless.

[MightyB]

But there is plenty of Judo in MMA, nonetheless.

Yeah there is...
-----
Maybe somebody better equipped and more knowledgeable has the answers. In all honesty I can't even answer what style I'd use if I were to get in a real fight. Would it be Judo? Kung Fu? BJJ? Boxing? IDK... I try to f*** around in all of them with competent people because I really do enjoy the practice and the people.

[IronFist]

A s shats who snipe at anyone while hiding are mouth-boxers. Rwilson is nothing but yet another coward who feels that this form of behavior if acceptable.

You want to critique then man up and be known. If you are a net ghost who talks smack about ANYONE or ANYTHING, you are nothing but a mouth-boxer.

So the person who is known publicly, has open door policies and goes out of their way to make it known exactly who and what they are, can be called mouthboxers while cowardly p u s s i e s who do none of that are exempt?

At least I am not some sackless/spineless dweeb who snipes at others. I have no problem telling anyone to their face how I feel. Why is it, that others seem to never want to do this?

Oh yeah, then they would taken to task for it and they would be asked to put their money where their festering piehole is.

At least I can walk with my head held high knowing I am not hiding in the mouthboxer closet like so many others on the internet

You're still missing the point.

It only matters if other people are "sackless/spineless dweebs" if they are making claims themselves.

I'm not a very good singer, but I can tell you when professional singers miss notes. I don't have to be a better singer than them to be correct in identifying when they are sharp/flat.

If RWilson was talking about being a qigong master, breaking the bottom brick with qi (rather than with physics), catching bullets in his teeth, etc., but failing to show any proof, then sure, he's open to ridicule.

If RWilson is saying he's better than people at certain things but failing to show any proof, then sure, call him a "sackless/spineless dweeb."

Your "my door is always open" attitude is fine, but it doesn't prove anything you've said or disprove anything anyone else is saying.

If someone says they can do x, and they want other people to believe that they can do x, then it is up to them to demonstrate that they can do x.

[IronFist]

I think there may be a very hard transition for many and that is because while everyone THINKS they fight, when they actually DO start, it is a rude awakening.
Not the getting hit mind you, that's the easy part to overcome.
Its the realization that the hard work you put in has NOT equipped you to fight with your MA vs an opponent that wants to take your head off and skull hump you.
And its the realization that to unlock the key to making your TCMA ( or any MA) work "for real" involved actually fighting MORE than anything else.

Gonna quote and bold this again in agreement.

[David Jamieson]

The hard work you've put into what?

Essentially it's this. You don't know how to fight until you do. You don't know how you'll fight until you do. And it doesn't matter what you train in.

Humans are useless when it comes to violence anyway. Laughable really.

We chest pound and posture and talk a lot of shyte.

Weapons are superior. Superior weapons are better. Buy a gun and learn to use it.
Dumping on people who do one thing because they don't do it like another group is silly. All of them are doing the actual minimum thing you can do to protect yourself regardless of what that is. Be it karate, judo, kenpo, boxing, muay thai etc etc etc.

Gun beats it all. It's 2012. All martial arts that do not use gun are sport, hobby or cultural pastime.

[IronFist]

The hard work you've put into what?

The hard work you've put into learning forms and practicing your 10-hit combos to your training partner's punch that wasn't going to hit you anyway while he leaves his arm extended so you can do the counter, etc.

A lot of people have put a lot of hard work into things that aren't going to help them in a fight at all, yet were mislead to believe that they were.

[mjw]

as for the pad work and drills etc extend the time like from 3-5 minutes and work in there have your turn and do about 3 min so you can watch and do your exercises too.
You can do the pushups etc if people skip out thats on them

[RWilson]

LMAO

of course RW will have no videos.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When do the cowardly mouthboxers EVER step up?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You are the biggest mouthboxer here and then you ask for bannings when you start to lose.

Look, you have this fantasy open door policy. It is a fantasy because it is easy to have an open door instead of walking through doors. Open doors meant something back in the day when challenges actually happen. Challenges do not happen today do your open door policy is actually fake. It makes you think you are tough even though you have not walked through any doors.

What famous tcma have you beaten up that was not a midget? What competitions have you won? You talk about doing Chinese judo but have not used it in comoetition against wrestlers, Judo tourneys, etc. Want to know why I am stressing open competitions? Why mma "thugs" make fun of Kung foo for not competing? To shut big guys like you up. You walk circles with weighted vests, let children hit you to show "iron body", and you talk about being able to kick, punch, throw, and joint like in a fight. The only problem with your claims is that there is only video of you doing solo exercise. The other problem is how big are the people you are throwing? Are they your size? Probably not. Competitions have weight classes and you will not end up in the kids weight class(the weight class of the gus punching you in your vid) you will end up with guys your size. Being able to use ba gua sticky hand whatever against a skilled opponent of your size is real skill.

[RWilson]

The hard work you've put into learning forms and practicing your 10-hit combos to your training partner's punch that wasn't going to hit you anyway while he leaves his arm extended so you can do the counter, etc.

A lot of people have put a lot of hard work into things that aren't going to help them in a fight at all, yet were mislead to believe that they were.

My mom used to tell me to clean the dishes. This was to practice horse stance and hand sensitivity. Standing around for that long strengthens my back and legs for fighting. Having to balance dishes with water falling all over is a good way to learn to handle different energies, like chi Sao. This training will teach me to yield and then attack. That was the real reason she had me doing dishes to teach me how to fight without fighting.

Ironfist is right. The things Kung foo people do: forms, push hands, stance training, arm hanging technique drilling are given to students as tools to learn fighting. They are all done with the spin of "you are doing something ancient, tested, and useful".

It is not useful to fighting. Fighting is useful to fighting. Kung foo teachers do not say, "yeah, do this from slow and then try to uproot me. There is no rhyme or reason. Just do it for fun. It has not usefulness". You will never hear this because no one would be doing Kung foo.

[IronFist]

My mom used to tell me to clean the dishes. This was to practice horse stance and hand sensitivity. Standing around for that long strengthens my back and legs for fighting. Having to balance dishes with water falling all over is a good way to learn to handle different energies, like chi Sao. This training will teach me to yield and then attack. That was the real reason she had me doing dishes to teach me how to fight without fighting.

What is this, an old kung fu movie?

Ironfist is right. The things Kung foo people do: forms, push hands, stance training, arm hanging technique drilling are given to students as tools to learn fighting. They are all done with the spin of "you are doing something ancient, tested, and useful".

It is not useful to fighting. Fighting is useful to fighting. Kung foo teachers do not say, "yeah, do this from slow and then try to uproot me. There is no rhyme or reason. Just do it for fun. It has not usefulness". You will never hear this because no one would be doing Kung foo.

You were joking about doing dishes helping you become a better fighter, right?

[wenshu]

I guarantee you if that some bitch got it in her head to roll up on the knitting forums talking shit about how a Croknit was inferior to a Hairpin Lace but couldn't tell the difference between a Kitchener stitch and an I-cord, she'd get a size 11 square end Surina Wood Crocheting Needle right in her fucking eyeball.

If Julius Irving was at Ford's theater the night Abraham Lincoln was assassinated who can bench press more while piloting the Starship Enterprise after an all night bender doing lines off of Kim Kardashian's ass with Kanye West? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Bobcat Goldwaithe?





Here's a graph I drew:










/* rubs testicle








/*smells hand

[Frost]

Basically we're agreeing - and there was a video of Chen Village push wrestling that looked pretty much like a shuai Jiao competition but it's since been buried in search engine h3ll.

My point is that the MMA deferred argument doesn't hold merit in the context of this forum. Is TCMA useful? Yes. Are there clips of TCMA in action? Yes.
....

We could go on to a philosophical debate just on Judo and MMA. People like to say it's used in MMA, I like to say aspects of Judo are used in MMA... same as aspects of BJJ or aspects of Thai Boxing etc. Look at Karo - that's hayastan grappling more than it's Judo. Anyway - Judo as how it's taught... depends on how and what is Judo - we could talk about the Gi or no gi, and look at cranks and crushes and then debate the newaza and strikes and go on to what is and isn't judo and this could last for days with both sides of the argument having merit. But in the end - can you say it's a pure form of Judo?

Then why do we hold TCMA to such a higher standard than other martial arts? Why does it have to be the answer to everything? It doesn't and isn't. It's good and answers a lot of questions and is useful in many circumstances that an average everyday person will face. And it's developing a combat sport side.

umm you are over complicating this

You posted a clip of a guy doing a push hands demo as proof tcma works, i simply asked for a clip of him doing it against a resisting opponent fighting him ,if someone posted a clip of neil adams doing a judo demo and saying look this is proof judo works in a fight id ask for the same, if i wanted proof of mr adams skill in judo i would have asked for a clip of him competing, luckily those clips exist lol so we can judge his skill level in judo, cant really judge the chen guys skills because no one has posted clips of him in competition, and thats my problem with TCMA (well some of it) people are judged a lot of the time on how good they look in demos, against their students or on their lineage, not by their fighting skills, does that have to mean MMA, no but sparring / fighting of some sort would be nice

Now judo, sambo are both used regularly in MMA, is that all thats used by these fighters? of course not they also train a striking art and probably other grappling arts as well but their are countless examples of people with a strong judo background in MMA, the same simply cant be said for TCMA (as it is trained in most schools), ie their is some sanda in MMA, but where are the guys doing hun gar, wing chun, mantis, tai chi, bagua and so on?

And since MMA has been around for over 20 years in the main stream saying we are getting there but its going to take time is a bit silly

[Frost]

You are the biggest mouthboxer here and then you ask for bannings when you start to lose.

Look, you have this fantasy open door policy. It is a fantasy because it is easy to have an open door instead of walking through doors. Open doors meant something back in the day when challenges actually happen. Challenges do not happen today do your open door policy is actually fake. It makes you think you are tough even though you have not walked through any doors.

What famous tcma have you beaten up that was not a midget? What competitions have you won? You talk about doing Chinese judo but have not used it in comoetition against wrestlers, Judo tourneys, etc. Want to know why I am stressing open competitions? Why mma "thugs" make fun of Kung foo for not competing? To shut big guys like you up. You walk circles with weighted vests, let children hit you to show "iron body", and you talk about being able to kick, punch, throw, and joint like in a fight. The only problem with your claims is that there is only video of you doing solo exercise. The other problem is how big are the people you are throwing? Are they your size? Probably not. Competitions have weight classes and you will not end up in the kids weight class(the weight class of the gus punching you in your vid) you will end up with guys your size. Being able to use ba gua sticky hand whatever against a skilled opponent of your size is real skill.

As much as I don’t like some of Wilsons posts, he makes some very valid points in this one

[SimonM]

Here's a perfectly good solution for y'all. Rather than trying to turn TCMA into MMA, just join a MMA gym.

An answer to Dave's blog about no video of TCMA in action. Now watch everyone post about how that's not TCMA, or the big wrestler isn't shooting or whatever other hogwash they need to maintain their fantasies about how TCMA is soooo inferior to everything else.

Just going to pop in with my 2 cents a little late...

Looked like Taiji to me - and better executed than average. It was a drill, not a fight, but the opponent was resisting and that's been the bar a lot of people have set.