Two Handed Jian

[mooyingmantis]

So what do you guys think of this article?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...p?article=1051

Two handed jian is a commonly practiced weapon in Mainland mantis styles. Yet in the article Yu seems to take credit for single-handedly resurrecting the weapon from ancient times. How do his claims fit in with what you may know about the history of the mantis two handed sword forms?

I know that two handed jian is taught by the following mantis instructors on the mainland:


Zhou Zhendong - TJTLQ ---> Li Feilin + Sun De
Sun Delong - TJMHTLQ
Yu Tianlu - QXTLQ
Zhang Bingdou - TJMHTLQ
Zhang Daojing - LHTLQ
Zhang Zhenyuan - TJMHTLQ

[Featherstone]

I've been meaning to read that article but havent gotten around to it as of yet. I know in Wah Lum we have several 2 hand sets however I cannot recall the names of them. I've only just started learning one of them.

[MightyB]

It'd be interesting to do more research. One thing that's in the article is that he spent most of his MA career in Shandong and Quingdao. Also the dates - 1975 and 1979 (his early two handed jian development). That would certainly put the sword set in the right place and right time frame for it to be adopted into mainland mantis.

Here's a video of him in action.

[mooyingmantis]

Kurt,
Yeah I had seen a couple videos of him on YouTube.

I thought the article was well written. I just wondered since I read that he was in Shandong province, the home of mantis. Did he influence them, or visa-versa.

[MightyB]

Kurt,
Yeah I had seen a couple videos of him on YouTube.

Ithought the article was well written. I just wondered since I read that he was in Shandong province, the home of mantis. Did he influence them, or visa-versa.

I'm wondering the same thing. You'd have to know someone that was practicing in the mainland before 1975. I'm sure someone here would know someone to ask.

[GeneChing]

I'm a little skeptical of that myself. Given the vast diversity of CMA, it seems like the tradition of shuangshoujian would be preserved elsewhere. But given Yu's notoriety, and his attitude towards the topic, we would be remiss if we didn't report his claim as he stated it.

[B.Tunks]

His impact was massive and the vast majority of today's shuangshou jian is directly influenced by him. Most of the double-handed Tanglang jian you see today was originally single handed with only a few double handed or supported hand strikes. Yu built his style off existing sword styles but many were subsequently modified to reflect his innovations. I'm not saying all, but certainly many...

[mooyingmantis]

I'm a little skeptical of that myself. Given the vast diversity of CMA, it seems like the tradition of shuangshoujian would be preserved elsewhere. But given Yu's notoriety, and his attitude towards the topic, we would be remiss if we didn't report his claim as he stated it.

Gene,
I enjoyed the article and it sounds like he was very influential. I just wondered if he was exaggerating a bit

His impact was massive and the vast majority of today's shuangshou jian is directly influenced by him. Most of the double-handed Tanglang jian you see today was originally single handed with only a few double handed or supported hand strikes. Yu built his style off existing sword styles but many were subsequently modified to reflect his innovations. I'm not saying all, but certainly many...

Brendan,
Thank you for your input! I was hoping you would chime in here.

[xiao yao]

My teacher was practicing the shuang shou jian before 1975. His teacher learnt it from Hao Heng Lu.

Ive never heard of the master in that article before, but Hao family has been famous for their sword and I think most Hao descendants can trace their sword back earlier than 75

[xiao yao]

Richard, on your list of masters teaching jian, both Sun De and Li Fei Lin learnt from Zhou shifu

[mooyingmantis]

Richard, on your list of masters teaching jian, both Sun De and Li Fei Lin learnt from Zhou shifu

Will,
Thanks for the info! Glad you saw this.

I changed my original post to give credit to Master Zhou's influence.

So, Hao Jia Tanglangquan could have influenced the following modern instructors:

Hao Henglu --> Zhang Kai Tang --> Zhou Zhendong --> Sun De + Li Feilin
Hao Henglu --> Hao Bin --> Sun Deyao + Sun Delong

[xiao yao]

theres a video on youtube somewhere of zhou shifu doing a sword form, there were 3 forms in hao family (2 double handed, 1 single handed) which he condensed into one form

i cant get on youtube now, so youl have to just search it

[bawang]

modern shuangshoujian recreations are inspired by yu.


two handed dao is effective in combat but two handed jian is not , it was a ceremonial weapon

[Hebrew Hammer]

modern shuangshoujian recreations are inspired by yu.


two handed dao is effective in combat but two handed jian is not , it was a ceremonial weapon

Based on what? or How do you know this? Just logically speaking, two handed swords were not cheap to make back in the day, I find it hard to believe many would have them made just for ceremony (circumcision?). The two handed Dao was probably more effective but I would have to imagine others tried fighting with a two handed Jian.

Weapons like it were certainly functional in Feudal Japan and Europe. Why would it not be effective in combat? It just doesn't make sense to me, unless they couldn't produce a jian blade that would not break under the stresses of combat.

Besides chicks dig the length.

I also enjoyed this article, in fact thought the whole issue was solid. Nice work Gene.

[bawang]

Based on what? or How do you know this? Just logically speaking, two handed swords were not cheap to make back in the day, I find it hard to believe many would have them made just for ceremony (circumcision?). The two handed Dao was probably more effective but I would have to imagine others tried fighting with a two handed Jian.

for jian you cant grab the back of the blade. this becomes a problem when the sword gets longer.

Weapons like it were certainly functional in Feudal Japan and Europe. Why would it not be effective in combat?

the ming dynasty army recovered two handed dao from the japanese and jian from koreans, but the jian was too difficult to use and abandoned.