Qi Cultivating Exercises

[bawang]

hey man, what i mean is, there was no knowledge of human biology. in reality its not supernatural, but the chinese term for it means supernatural. just like there isnt really a glowing tiny sun inside your lower intestines.

[Scott R. Brown]

Sure they can... They do it all the time. They got a lady going to the Olympics that can do it.

Yeah it takes training and not everyone can do it. But that is just genetic variability meeting mental commitment and focus! And proper training.

[Robinhood]

Yes,

If one is looking for a physical advantage, as Robinhood suggests he is, there is still no compelling evidence that there is any advantage other than fantastic anecdotes that cannot be proven. In the history of man, not ONE person has demonstrated their physical abilities come from special development of qi, in a manner that cannot be duplicate by others who do not attribute their accomplishment to qigong.

Which means, it either is not qi, or qi develops on its own without any need to take valuable training time practicing esoteric activities.

I did not say physical advantage , that is your interpretation , probably because you don't know what I am talking about.

[Empty_Cup]

So maybe a more specific question should be:
Can qi cultivating exercises unlock your body's ability to exceed current levels of performance?

Take, for instance, stories of what people can do under extreme stress . Lifting cars from on top of a person/baby, outrunning fire, etc. My understanding is that this ability is "unlocked" from chemicals such as adrenaline. However, is there any theory that qigong practice can produce the same result? i.e. using qigong to achieve/unlock the body's natural ability to achieve these feats of strength and speed?

[bawang]

However, is there any theory that qigong practice can produce the same result? i.e. using qigong to achieve/unlock the body's natural ability to achieve these feats of strength and speed?

hard qigong aka martial qigong.

in external kung fu weight lifting is combined with qigong.

[xinyidizi]

I believe here forcing qi is the right word as forcing and letting go are the two extreme sides of this analogy. The balance between them would be leading qi.

I think starting at the two extreme points is necessary for beginners so that they can find the balance gradually. At the beginning I remember what I was doing most of the time was forcing qi which was safe as I could't move much reserved qi to hurt myself anyway. This way I gradually cleaned up the meridians without hurting myself and by the time I had enough reserved qi my meridians had already been relatively opened. Now I don't really need to force anything and as you said I just lead it but it wasn't possible for me to do this at the beginning and some force was necessary to flush the rubbish. So I believe leading the qi is only possible after the meridians are relatively open not before that. Having said that I should also mention that I was taught to do other qigong exercises and meditation techniques as well to help me in grounding the energy.
Edit:

Blockages that are not illness or injury induced are emotionally induced. They are physical manifestations of mental stresses. When you force a mechanical breakup of the blockage, you do not actually resolve the emotional issue, you merely remove the physical expression of it robbing the body of an outlet for the stress.

You raise a good point but in my experience removing the blockage through qigong can actually resolve the emotional issue as it improves the whole system of the body not just a limited part.

[xinyidizi]

So maybe a more specific question should be:
Can qi cultivating exercises unlock your body's ability to exceed current levels of performance?

Take, for instance, stories of what people can do under extreme stress . Lifting cars from on top of a person/baby, outrunning fire, etc. My understanding is that this ability is "unlocked" from chemicals such as adrenaline. However, is there any theory that qigong practice can produce the same result? i.e. using qigong to achieve/unlock the body's natural ability to achieve these feats of strength and speed?

From the way a martial artist does fajin, shenfa, ... trained people can easily see who has done his homework in neigong. People who haven't practiced neigong might be able to imitate the moves but their forms look empty. I believe cultivating and utilizing qi is like a glue between 形 and 神（body and mind?) and can help the body to reach its best natural condition.

[mawali]

So maybe a more specific question should be:
Can qi cultivating exercises unlock your body's ability to exceed current levels of performance?

Take, for instance, stories of what people can do under extreme stress . Lifting cars from on top of a person/baby, outrunning fire, etc. My understanding is that this ability is "unlocked" from chemicals such as adrenaline. However, is there any theory that qigong practice can produce the same result? i.e. using qigong to achieve/unlock the body's natural ability to achieve these feats of strength and speed?

That is adrenalin+! It is a short term condition.
There is no qigong routine that can produce such results. Since I am a well known fool, if anyone is practicing a qigong routine that accomplishes this, please share with the peanut gallery. Personally, there is no such <crap> that does that!

For the body's ability to exceed present levels of performance, it must be undergoing a daily regimen of that routine that allows it to perform, as in swimming, running, wrestling, etc. Repetition of the basic conditioning aspect of said sport will always allow for increased performance.

[Empty_Cup]

That is adrenalin+! It is a short term condition.
...

For the body's ability to exceed present levels of performance, it must be undergoing a daily regimen of that routine that allows it to perform, as in swimming, running, wrestling, etc. Repetition of the basic conditioning aspect of said sport will always allow for increased performance.

I agree it is adrenaline that allows for that short term power/speed. What's interesting, though, is that this chemical allows a person's body to do something they aren't able to recreate without stress. i.e. these people are always amazed at what they've done and are never able to repeat it without being in that life/death situation again.

What this does, though, is present the possibility that there are other methods to trigger higher muscle/power/speed output. Let's say, for example, that when you max out your bench press you use 40% of your muscle capacity (if folks have a more accurate # please post). And let's assume in a life/death situation that same muscle group would be at 100% output to shove off, say, a huge slab of rock that had fallen on you. These cases are well documented. This same phenomenon occurs when people are electrocuted and have an instantaneous contraction of their muscles due to the electricity.

So, if one is open to the idea that these muscles can have different outputs in different situations...wouldn't it follow that qi and martial qigong could merely be specialized training in how to activate/coordinate muscle groups in a way to enhance their output? Even if you could only increase the muscle output by 10% that may in fact be a noticeable difference. Makes me wonder if that has ever been measured.

Thoughts?

[Scott R. Brown]

Weight Training will increase your strength by greater than 10%, it can increase it by up to 400% or more depending upon where you start.

Why do qigong for years to build mythical strength when weights will increase real strength in a measure way (more weight on the bar equals greater strength) and do it in a shorter period of time?

[Empty_Cup]

Weight Training will increase your strength by greater than 10%, it can increase it by up to 400% or more depending upon where you start.

Why do qigong for years to build mythical strength when weights will increase real strength in a measure way (more weight on the bar equals greater strength) and do it in a shorter period of time?

Think we're talking apples and oranges here. Weight training is building your muscle mass which would increase your strength vs. starting muscle mass. What I had mentioned in the previous post is utilizing more % of a given muscle mass. I agree that weight training makes you stronger vs. not weight training and in a short amount of time. The question here is maximizing the utilization/output of those muscles.

[Robinhood]

Weight Training will increase your strength by greater than 10%, it can increase it by up to 400% or more depending upon where you start.

Why do qigong for years to build mythical strength when weights will increase real strength in a measure way (more weight on the bar equals greater strength) and do it in a shorter period of time?

Why do you always try to compare chi with muscle strength ?

[Fa Xing]

Why do you always try to compare chi with muscle strength ?

Because muscle strength is actually measurable and fantasy chi-powers are not (plus they dont exist).

[Empty_Cup]

Because muscle strength is actually measurable and fantasy chi-powers are not (plus they dont exist).

Anybody know of any research attempting to measure qi?

Again with the scientific method there are theories/hypotheses based on observation which then lead to experiments. My take on it is this:
- Generations of monks sat and meditated for years and made observations
- They theorized/hypothesized that their observations involved a concept of qi
- Using this theory and concept of qi, they experimented both martially and with TCM (acupuncture, acupressure, etc.)

However, to Fa Xing's point, I don't believe that qi has been directly measured. If anybody has some information/studies on this topic, please let me know. Yet not being able to directly measure something does not mean it doesn't exist. Look at gravity. We have all kinds of data and can calculate exactly how gravity will influence an object yet nobody has EVER been able to measure gravity directly. We still don't know if it's a particle, or some kind of field, etc.

[xinyidizi]

Anybody know of any research attempting to measure qi?

Again with the scientific method there are theories/hypotheses based on observation which then lead to experiments. My take on it is this:
- Generations of monks sat and meditated for years and made observations
- They theorized/hypothesized that their observations involved a concept of qi
- Using this theory and concept of qi, they experimented both martially and with TCM (acupuncture, acupressure, etc.)

However, to Fa Xing's point, I don't believe that qi has been directly measured. If anybody has some information/studies on this topic, please let me know. Yet not being able to directly measure something does not mean it doesn't exist. Look at gravity. We have all kinds of data and can calculate exactly how gravity will influence an object yet nobody has EVER been able to measure gravity directly. We still don't know if it's a particle, or some kind of field, etc.

I guess you read the other thread. It is pointless to discuss qi's existence with anyone. People who were trained to see qi will continue to see qi, people who were trained to sense qi will continue to sense qi. Those who want to learn seeing qi will somehow find a way to do that. The rest are either those who believe in qi or those who think that it's all a myth. At the end probably no one will change his opinion.