Elbows just cut...

[wingchunIan]

I know this has been discussed before and the debate rages on about the importance / role of elbows. Watched this fight this morning and for those who say elbows just cut, try this clip of Munoz v Weidman. The elbow that finishes the fight is a cup jarn type of movement with very little behind it so not even one of the more powerful elbow strikes. Ref was very slow to stop the fight as Munoz was out before he even hit the ground.


http://youtu.be/rC5G1NRkdxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC5G1NRkdxE

[SimonM]

Depends on the guy, depends on the conditioning, but if you have trained it right an elbow is a very powerful close-range technique. There's plenty of evidence supporting that.

Also, even if most elbows did "just cut," has anybody tried to fight with an eye full of blood?

[GlennR]

I know this has been discussed before and the debate rages on about the importance / role of elbows. Watched this fight this morning and for those who say elbows just cut, try this clip of Munoz v Weidman. The elbow that finishes the fight is a cup jarn type of movement with very little behind it so not even one of the more powerful elbow strikes. Ref was very slow to stop the fight as Munoz was out before he even hit the ground.

Id disagree with your opinion of the elbow thrown here.

He's got great structure in it, rolling the right hip with a slightly downward motion, munoz is also walking forward at the time.
I think that shot puts nearly anyone down. AS you said, he was out before he hit the ground

IMO elbows are vastly underutilised and underrated in self defense, and from a WC POV we are often in that range so i its a big yes to elbows from me.

[Frost]

Lol I just knew when I clicked on the thread that would be the fight posted lol
Thai elbows are designed to cut primarily hence slashing with the elbow point, Munoz managed to both duck into and almost run onto that shot, doesn’t happen very often hence I knew that would be the fight you were posting!
Are elbows a good weapon? They can be especially if the opponent is pinned and cant absorb the strike by moving backwards, hence elbows on the floor do much more damage than elbows standing, elbows against the cage or against a wall do much more damage than those in the open, but they are still a good weapon to use in clos just maybe not a finishing weapon
Check these kids out at the 4.40 minute mark for some very good elbows which still are absorbed very well because there are done in the open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF71B...yer_embedded#!

[GlennR]

I know this has been discussed before and the debate rages on about the importance / role of elbows. Watched this fight this morning and for those who say elbows just cut, try this clip of Munoz v Weidman. The elbow that finishes the fight is a cup jarn type of movement with very little behind it so not even one of the more powerful elbow strikes. Ref was very slow to stop the fight as Munoz was out before he even hit the ground.


http://youtu.be/rC5G1NRkdxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC5G1NRkdxE

Oh, and good topic by the way..... lets see how many people have some input

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure Elbows cut, especially IF you throw them that way ( which most do) but they can also smash ( in karate they fall under the category of "ate-waza" smashing techniques), anyone that has ever sunk in a hard elbow to the body knows its effects.
Because of the tendency for the elbow to be "overly" circular and aimed at the face, it tends to get more cuts than KO's and when it does, people tend to view it as a "forearm smash" as opposed to an elbow.
We all remember Pat Smith destroying "Ninja Bob" in UFC 2 ( I think it was 2) with elbows from the mount.
And elbow KO's happen frequently in MT.

[wingchunIan]

Just for clarity folks, I'm a huge fan of elbows and a 100% believer in their ability to produce KOs. Previous discussions on here though have thrown up some opposite views from folks who clearly see elbows as an inferior weapon designed only to cut, so I was interested in their opinions of this clip.

[Frost]

Just for clarity folks, I'm a huge fan of elbows and a 100% believer in their ability to produce KOs. Previous discussions on here though have thrown up some opposite views from folks who clearly see elbows as an inferior weapon designed only to cut, so I was interested in their opinions of this clip.

Its not that they are inferior or superior, its a case of horses for courses and when and where you chose to use them, elbows are rotational and if you miss you risk giving up your back (as royce found out when throwing them at matt hughes) personally i like to thorw forearms and punch them in when doing stand up, as i was taught in (hung gar lol)

I think they work better on the ground or up against a solid object, you see much more KO's in MMA when they are thrown on the ground, or against the cage wall than out in the open, but at least when thrwon out in the open you have less change of breaking them as you do your figners, pick your weapon according to personal preference i suppose

[ShaolinDan]

Are elbows a good weapon? They can be especially if the opponent is pinned and cant absorb the strike by moving backwards, hence elbows on the floor do much more damage than elbows standing, elbows against the cage or against a wall do much more damage than those in the open, but they are still a good weapon to use in clos just maybe not a finishing weapon

same could be said for any striking though.

I don't read much in the WC forum, so this is the first I've heard of elbows being just for cutting. This is just silly. Like saying punches are just for pushing.

[Frost]

same could be said for any striking though.

I don't read much in the WC forum, so this is the first I've heard of elbows being just for cutting. This is just silly. Like saying punches are just for pushing.

Some strikes are more penetrative and thus sink into the body, some push more like elbows and thus need a structure behind them (normally)to be most effective.
In MMA you tend to see Thai style elbows and thoase are designed to cut, hence the bony bit is shown, can other elbows be thrown and can they be knockout weapsons, yes but like I said horses for courses and yes the same can be said for all strikes:
all strikes have their benefits and weaknesses, hooks are very powerful but if you miss hard to reset, straight punches easier to recover from but normally easier to see coming, jabs are faster than crosses but not as powerful so on and so on right tool for the right occasion and all that
and get out of this forum whilst you can lol

[jmd161]

Some strikes are more penetrative and thus sink into the body, some push more like elbows and thus need a structure behind them (normally)to be most effective.
In MMA you tend to see Thai style elbows and thoase are designed to cut, hence the bony bit is shown, can other elbows be thrown and can they be knockout weapsons, yes but like I said horses for courses and yes the same can be said for all strikes:
all strikes have their benefits and weaknesses, hooks are very powerful but if you miss hard to reset, straight punches easier to recover from but normally easier to see coming, jabs are faster than crosses but not as powerful so on and so on right tool for the right occasion and all that
and get out of this forum whilst you can lol

+1 this!

good points!

[wingchunIan]

Some strikes are more penetrative and thus sink into the body, some push more like elbows and thus need a structure behind them (normally)to be most effective.

The elbow strikes in Wing Chun should (according to what I have been taught / teach) be thrown with the same penetrating "inch" force as the punches and target the jic seen in the same way.

[Vajramusti]

I know this has been discussed before and the debate rages on about the importance / role of elbows. Watched this fight this morning and for those who say elbows just cut, try this clip of Munoz v Weidman. The elbow that finishes the fight is a cup jarn type of movement with very little behind it so not even one of the more powerful elbow strikes. Ref was very slow to stop the fight as Munoz was out before he even hit the ground.


http://youtu.be/rC5G1NRkdxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC5G1NRkdxE

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No debate from me. Elbows are important things in the wing chun arsenal.

[LoneTiger108]

Elbows elbows... we love our elbows in the UK!

A martial cousin of mine showing a short 8 elbow set taught to him by Sifu Joseph Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NoskhOS730

They do far more than cut sometimes

[jmd161]

Elbows elbows... we love our elbows in the UK!

A martial cousin of mine showing a short 8 elbow set taught to him by Sifu Joseph Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NoskhOS730

They do far more than cut sometimes

We have similar sets... but, we stress not leaving the pit of the under arm exposed like in the video! We have techniques we train to attack that particular area when exposed....