Which of the following do you consider to be TMA?

[IronFist]

Inspired by a post in another thread where someone said TMA aren't useful for fighting, and someone countered and said Sanda and SJ are useful for fighting, and then someone said those aren't TMAs.

I'm curious which arts KFM thinks are TMAs.

Sorry for all the "and/or" options. KFM only allows a maximum of 10 poll choices so I had to combine some stuff

I'm curious to see if KFM thinks MT, SJ, Boxing, etc. are TMAs or if it's only the flowery ones performed against cooperative opponents.

[David Jamieson]

These are all traditional arts.

[Lucas]

all of the above.

[SimonM]

TKD stretches the boundaries of "traditional" pretty darn far.

[Lucas]

well, imo tkd is similar to cma in that respects. there is some cma that stretches that too. but there is some pretty old school hard core tkd out there.

[SimonM]

Oh, I'd agree with you that some CMA stretches the "traditional" definition.

So does Judo to a lesser degree.

[sanjuro_ronin]

tra·di·tion
   [truh-dish-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition.
2.
something that is handed down: the traditions of the Eskimos.
3.
a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition.
4.
a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.
5.
a customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.

[Lucas]

i think in terms of the definition of 'traditional' in connection to martial arts there needs to be a more clear distinction. such as;

1. a martial tradition maintaining the qualities of martial application to real combat scenarios. both sport and self defense.

2. a martial tradition that does not maintain standard qualities of martial application, though is derived from such traditions originally, however has developed its own route of tradition through practice and passing these practices on. ie; non combat oriented martial practices.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i think in terms of the definition of 'traditional' in connection to martial arts there needs to be a more clear distinction. such as;

1. a martial tradition maintaining the qualities of martial application to real combat scenarios. both sport and self defense.

2. a martial tradition that does not maintain standard qualities of martial application, though is derived from such traditions originally, however has developed its own route of tradition through practice and passing these practices on. ie; non combat oriented martial practices.

Once a MA has been around long enough to HAVE a tradition it is, by definition, a traditional MA.
Some systems, like western wrestling are older than the vast majority of T(asian)MA.
All those systems are TMA in the truest since of the words.
Now, what can truly be debated is how many of those TMA have KEPT the tradition that give rise to them, ie: the tradition (typically) of combat effectiveness.

Lets look at a typical example that we don't even have to name:
MA practioner ( perhaps master already) Wong knows a MA ( perhaps more than 1 which was typiclaly the case), he is defeated in combat by another MA ( or perhaps during his training sees that his MA is "missing something). He comits himself to further study AND training to defeat said master/style ( or fill in the missing pieces) as such he personal MA bases begins to change and evolve to better meet the demands he must face.
He pressure tests this new way of fighting by fighting against other practioners of OTHER MA, sometimes in training (friendly matches) sometimes in duels and other times in self-protection or the protection of others.
The system is born, a system based on an existing core, modified and evolved UNDER PRESSURE to deal with the "fighting issues" of His time.

What is the tradition of THAT art?

[SimonM]

I actually wrote an article for Kung Fu Magazine on that very issue. You can find the back issue here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I actually wrote an article for Kung Fu Magazine on that very issue. You can find the back issue here.

Really?
Cool, share man-***** !

[Lucas]

What is the tradition of THAT art?

fighting. hence my approach to provide a distinction between styles that fight, and styles that dont. ie the commonly known; modern wushu, some styles of aikido, etc.


in my opinion there are traditional combat martial arts, and then there are traditional performance martial arts. very different breeds.

the tricky thing is some schools cater to both. thats where it gets tricky.

sifu teaches both modern traditional contemporary longfist performance, and then he also teaches traditional longfist combat kungfu. student 1 learns performance, and student 2 learns combat, student 3 learns both.

all 3 students study traditional longfist, but only 2 of them study traditional combat martial arts. and only 2 of them study traditional performance kungfu.

[sanjuro_ronin]

fighting. hence my approach to provide a distinction between styles that fight, and styles that dont. ie the commonly known; modern wushu, some styles of aikido, etc.


in my opinion there are traditional combat martial arts, and then there are traditional performance martial arts. very different breeds.

the tricky thing is some schools cater to both. thats where it gets tricky.

sifu teaches both modern traditional contemporary longfist performance, and then he also teaches traditional longfist combat kungfu. student 1 learns performance, and student 2 learns combat, student 3 learns both.

all 3 students study traditional longfist, but only 2 of them study traditional combat martial arts. and only 2 of them study traditional performance kungfu.

Indeed, well put.
What bothers me the most is NOT the systems that have tradition of performance or health as their PRIMARY focus ( Taiji for example) and have soem that use it in a combat way ( in keeping with its original tradition), it is the systems that were forged under fire and NEVER gave up the tradition, never had it replaced or altered, indeed they pride themselves on that tradition of fighting and testing BUT they don't do it anymore !

That is what gets on my knickers.

[Lucas]

That is what gets on my knickers.

i think it gets on all our knickers lol

[Raipizo]

I didn't vote tkd or boxing, they are recently new and don't qualify as traditional to me.