Which of the following do you consider to be TMA?

[SPJ]

Inspired by a post in another thread where someone said TMA aren't useful for fighting, and someone countered and said Sanda and SJ are useful for fighting, and then someone said those aren't TMAs.

I'm curious which arts KFM thinks are TMAs.

Sorry for all the "and/or" options. KFM only allows a maximum of 10 poll choices so I had to combine some stuff

I'm curious to see if KFM thinks MT, SJ, Boxing, etc. are TMAs or if it's only the flowery ones performed against cooperative opponents.

It does not matter which school or discipline you start or get good at.

Just keep going and build on whatever you have.

I started with shuai jiao and then tan tui.

Make them work for you.

Or learn something else, if that school/discipline did not work out for you.

[Ben Gash]

I didn't vote tkd or boxing, they are recently new and don't qualify as traditional to me.

You do realize that boxing is over 400 years old? Even in it's current format it's older than Judo or Karate.

[Lucas]

well even tkd has old roots. the name tkd is really just a new name put to a developed format based on old styles whether you believe its derived largely from subbak or karate, doesnt really matter. its just a new name on old tradition arts. and at this point has definately defined its own tradition.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well even tkd has old roots. the name tkd is really just a new name put to a developed format based on old styles whether you believe its derived largely from subbak or karate, doesnt really matter. its just a new name on old tradition arts. and at this point has definately defined its own tradition.

TKD was basically modified Shotokan BUT to say it isn't traditional is silly since it has a tradition.
I think that people associate tradition with 100's of years or some silliness like that.
The two oldest MA are boxing and wrestling.
But, by the very definition of the word, the moment a MA has a tradition to "pass down" it is traditional.
TKD is from the 50's (older if you take into account the traditions it was based one), that is long enough to be a TMA.

[Lucas]

in your experience with tkd do a lot of tkd people cross train hapkido, or are they generally exclusive?

[sanjuro_ronin]

in your experience with tkd do a lot of tkd people cross train hapkido, or are they generally exclusive?

Nope, not unless they are korean
Seriously though, no, but many old school TKD guys had some hapkido.
Hapkido is one f'ed up art, the limited time I did it I hated every moment of it.
Just thinking about it makes my wrists scream in pain

[SimonM]

My experience with hapkido has been a lot of "too deadly for the ring" types. Can't comment on legitimacy since I've never trained in or fought against it. Can you elucidate SR?

[sanjuro_ronin]

My experience with hapkido has been a lot of "too deadly for the ring" types. Can't comment on legitimacy since I've never trained in or fought against it. Can you elucidate SR?

My hapkido guy was old school, hard contact, minimal padding and believed that the best way to use wrist locks (a mainstay of hapkido) was to do them fast, hard and after you were beaten to a pulp !!
I have small wrists and that **** hurt like hell !
It was one of those schools located in a basement, smelled like feet and blood stains on the carpet and hardwood floors.
I don't recall one class where someone was NOT hurt.
Hapkido has no forms and while there is some "air work" the vast majority was partner and contact work.

[IronFist]

I don't recall one class where someone was NOT hurt.

I hate schools like that.

I went to a Hapkido McDojo for a few weeks back in the day. Lots of kicking pads. There was a punching bag but I think I was the only one who ever used it. I don't recall any sparing, but we did this one shoulder throw over and over and over and over one class period and ever since my shoulder has made a "fffft" type noise when I move it a certain way. This was 13 or 14 years ago.

btw, the shoulder throw was against a cooperative opponent.

I remember one day in the Hapkido McDojo we were doing some qi breathing thing and the instructor (this older Korean guy) had me lay down and breath a certain way. He was going to pick up like a "light as a feather, stiff as a board" type of thing and balance me on this chair. As soon as he tried to pick me up, my body folded in half and it didn't work. I guess I wasn't doing it right. lol.

Oh, one thing TMAs have going for them (and I will post this in my TMA thread, too) is the escapes from wrist grabs and stuff. Not the whole complex 10 hit combo escape, but simply learning how to twist/move your wrist to escape. That was one thing we actually did train against (somewhat) resisting opponents, both in Isshinryu karate when I was young, and the Hapkido McDojo when I was 17.

[Jimbo]

I voted all of them.

As mentioned, 'traditional' doesn't have to mean hundreds of years old. Funny enough, when many people think of 'traditional' MA's, the first image is something like Shotokan. It has it's traditions and is therefore traditional, but only evolved to its modern characteristics (and named Shotokan) from about 1935. It was Funakoshi's son who modified the movements to be larger/longer, and incorporated the high kicks, etc.

BJJ is a traditional art, it has its own traditions. Not to mention it's a branch of Japanese judo/jujutsu. Around since the 1920s. Even Rickson Gracie has stated that Gracie Jiu Jitsu is a Japanese MA.

CLF is traditional, and although it's based on older systems (obviously), it only began its modern history as CLF in 1836, making it a relatively recent development in CMA.

Of course, the various forms of wrestling are the oldest of traditional MA's.

[Raipizo]

I was thinking literally just western boxing. I know other forms are older but I believe the westernized version is younger. And I was thinking strictly tkd in the newer Korean sport tkd sense obviously it has roots everything does.

[SimonM]

Even modern western boxing goes back to the 1700s at least.

[Raipizo]

Even modern western boxing goes back to the 1700s at least.

Well I'll be ****ed

[kuniggety]

Boxing has been quite popular in Europe for some time. You can find a number of actual boxing manuals dating in the 1800s but I'm sure some scholars know of some older.

[LivingArt]

All of these arts are traditional to their practitioners. Who's to decide how many years defines an acceptable "tradition" ? None of us here have defined or developed our arts from the beginning, we simply learn and understand them to the best of our abilities.

I believe all of these arts are "traditional" martial arts, but let us not forget that "tradition" is subjective. Subjective to ones culture, preference, and upbringing.