Single Leg Posting, Hanging Leg, YGKYM and the No Shadow Kick

[Happy Tiger]

This is getting good. I'm hoping to get into footwork and no shadow kicking.
For me, the cinnamon test is from YGKYM; straight front kick...back to line. No...Shadow. Almost defies gravity.

The Quick Draw kick of Ving Tsun

[imperialtaichi]

The Quick Draw kick of Ving Tsun

Apart from being fast and non-telegraphing, another attribute is to have it unpredictable, and to come in at angles hard for the opponent to see.

[GlennR]

the difference is still that you losing one thin moment when you free the leg kicking from the weight on it to be re balance to the other one

so thats not what i can call 100 % no telegraphic

and thats a physical law

if in this case you dont re balance ,you cannot really lift the leg

100% back leg , problem solved

Cant argue with any of the logic there, but with practice, for all intensive purposes, it can be done.

Having said that, neither of the legs are as free or non-telegraphic as the front foot in a 100% rear weighted leg, but, how free is your back leg??

[wingchunIan]

I struggle with the concept of always being equally weighted or always being 100% rear weighted. Wing Chun for me should be a mixture of both depending upon the situation. If I'm driving in to an opponent or moving backwards I weight the rear leg to keep my head back, make room for my hands, make the lead leg less vulnerable etc, however the rest of the time I will be neutral or if turning / shifting will be weighted to one side or the other.
As far as the shadow less kick is concerned I think people are taking it a little bit too literally. The upper body should be trained not to reveal the intention of the lower body but the fact that the kick is aimed low, at a distance closer than most other system kicks, has no chambering and is usually performed in conjunction with hand movement means that it is very difficult for an opponent to detect.

[MOSHE]

Cant argue with any of the logic there, but with practice, for all intensive purposes, it can be done.

Having said that, neither of the legs are as free or non-telegraphic as the front foot in a 100% rear weighted leg, but, how free is your back leg??

When you want to kick with the back
Leg even from a neutral stance or back leg full support
You are in the same situation , having to transfer forward the weight support
Like walking

[MOSHE]

I struggle with the concept of always being equally weighted or always being 100% rear weighted. Wing Chun for me should be a mixture of both depending upon the situation. If I'm driving in to an opponent or moving backwards I weight the rear leg to keep my head back, make room for my hands, make the lead leg less vulnerable etc, however the rest of the time I will be neutral or if turning / shifting will be weighted to one side or the other.
As far as the shadow less kick is concerned I think people are taking it a little bit too literally. The upper body should be trained not to reveal the intention of the lower body but the fact that the kick is aimed low, at a distance closer than most other system kicks, has no chambering and is usually performed in conjunction with hand movement means that it is very difficult for an opponent to detect.

there no mixture in the structure of wing chun concerning the basic concept

if you mix ,its cannot be called anymore wc and this will have distortion effects in other areas

[GlennR]

When you want to kick with the back
Leg even from a neutral stance or back leg full support
You are in the same situation , having to transfer forward the weight support
Like walking

Thats my point.

Using the 100% rear weighted means you effectively only have one "shadowless kick"

Ergo the reason not to do it

[GlennR]

I struggle with the concept of always being equally weighted or always being 100% rear weighted. Wing Chun for me should be a mixture of both depending upon the situation. If I'm driving in to an opponent or moving backwards I weight the rear leg to keep my head back, make room for my hands, make the lead leg less vulnerable etc, however the rest of the time I will be neutral or if turning / shifting will be weighted to one side or the other.
As far as the shadow less kick is concerned I think people are taking it a little bit too literally. The upper body should be trained not to reveal the intention of the lower body but the fact that the kick is aimed low, at a distance closer than most other system kicks, has no chambering and is usually performed in conjunction with hand movement means that it is very difficult for an opponent to detect.

Personally, i prefer a little bit of weight on the back leg be i WCing or MTing. I like how it gives me that free front leg in both attack and defense and it also allows for good weight transfer going forward in my strikes.

But, i dont adhere to it religiously and change when the occasion arises

[MOSHE]

Thats my point.

Using the 100% rear weighted means you effectively only have one "shadowless kick"

Ergo the reason not to do it

Don't seems logic because neutral or 70/30 means no leg totally free ?

Better one than none ?

In fact , if I refer to other lineages , I think the choice of the stance is done as well regarding the advantage offered to the ability of the hands more than the ability of the kicks

Sum nung you wrote about .is he the one who have an ancestor from Peru?

[GlennR]

Don't seems logic because neutral or 70/30 means no leg totally free ?

Well i can only say that when i spar, most people say they have trouble picking up my front leg and im about 60/40... it works and importantly its a very hard kick

Better one than none ?

Sure, but i dont have that problem

In fact , if I refer to other lineages , I think the choice of the stance is done as well regarding the advantage offered to the ability of the hands more than the ability of the kicks

Sorry, not to sure what you mean here??? I think its a translation problem

[MOSHE]

[QUOTE=GlennR;1180548]



Sorry, not to sure what you mean here??? I think its a translation problem[/

For other lineages
the choice of the stance is done more regarding the ability of the hands rather than the ability of the kicks

[Paddington]

The upper body should be trained not to reveal the intention of the lower body but the fact that the kick is aimed low, at a distance closer than most other system kicks, has no chambering and is usually performed in conjunction with hand movement means that it is very difficult for an opponent to detect.

Chum kui and the section containing the first kick is an ideal way to train not to telegraph. The Lan sau position can be used to identify telegraphed body movement, as even the smallest movement in the shoulders or general raising of the stance from the supporting leg, is exaggerated by the lan sau shape. Like the movement of a record being played, movement close to the edge is easier to identify than at the center. By focusing on keeping the lan sau still one can train to not telegraph the kick.

Granted, this is to train but one kind of kick. Anyone else have some training tips?

[Vajramusti]

http://luimingfai.wix.com/vingtsun

You might want to look at Lui Ming Fai- a Ho Kam Ming protege
blocking a kick with his own. Lui is balanced equally on both legs
and not leaning back.Weight is NOT on the back leg.

I think this has to be shown rather than just depending on emails
and posts.

[MOSHE]

http://luimingfai.wix.com/vingtsun

You might want to look at Lui Ming Fai- a Ho Kam Ming protege
blocking a kick with his own. Lui is balanced equally on both legs
and not leaning back.Weight is NOT on the back leg.

I think this has to be shown rather than just depending on emails
and posts.

Hi Joy

I looked at it , so everybody is doing the same from a facing stance

But when I looked his stepping pressuring another guy, the spread between his legs , and the balance of his weight front and back leg don't indicate me an easy non telegraphic kick !

[Vajramusti]

Hi Joy

I looked at it , so everybody is doing the same from a facing stance

But when I looked his stepping pressuring another guy, the spread between his legs , and the balance of his weight front and back leg don't indicate me an easy non telegraphic kick !

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We see different things...it's ok.

Pointless to argue much. The issues involve details of relationships to gravity.
Moshe.

Do you have any visible example of Ng Chan's, or your sifu's or your back leg kick.? Thanks.