Single Leg Posting, Hanging Leg, YGKYM and the No Shadow Kick

[LoneTiger108]

The upper body should be trained not to reveal the intention of the lower body but the fact that the kick is aimed low, at a distance closer than most other system kicks, has no chambering and is usually performed in conjunction with hand movement means that it is very difficult for an opponent to detect.

Superb IMHO you hit the nail right on the head here.

I also think there may be too many people who misunderstand what 'shadowless' means too because I was taught that it isn't so much about 'hiding detectable' signs that you are about to kick, it was all about 'deception' and the simple fact that when I kick, my aim is for the movement to be so fast that it IS shadowless and the same really applies to our hands and weaponry too

That, FME, is pretty difficult

[wingchunIan]

there no mixture in the structure of wing chun concerning the basic concept

if you mix ,its cannot be called anymore wc and this will have distortion effects in other areas

Moshe, do you hop down the street on one leg? do you do YJKYM at all? how about saam bok ma? (or didn't you get as far as the knives yet). Wing Chun has both equal weighted footwork and differentially weighted footwork. There are differences in approach across the various lineages and whilst we might debate the pros and cons of each, or the origin of any difference in approach most of us refrain from the childish - if you don't do it my way then its not wing chun statements. Your lack of understanding is amazing and is possibly only surpassed by your arrogance in your belief that you have the "one true system" of Wing Chun.

[MOSHE]

Moshe, do you hop down the street on one leg? do you do YJKYM at all? how about saam bok ma? (or didn't you get as far as the knives yet). Wing Chun has both equal weighted footwork and differentially weighted footwork. There are differences in approach across the various lineages and whilst we might debate the pros and cons of each, or the origin of any difference in approach most of us refrain from the childish - if you don't do it my way then its not wing chun statements. Your lack of understanding is amazing and is possibly only surpassed by your arrogance in your belief that you have the "one true system" of Wing Chun.

Too bad you take it this way , I just share bite of what I know and you are simply missunderstooding the serious of what I received which let no place for fantasy
That's no arrogance , just a not compromised way
To keep things like I received without disgression
Focus more about the logic I try to put forward than my writing style

[LoneTiger108]

To keep things like I received without disgression

This is a common thing in Chinese Martial Arts. "Teaching how I was taught" would not get me very far at all because the majority of people I have met over the years simply could not handle the way I was taught!! And so, we change things to suit our needs. It's what makes us human.

So, you also teach in Chinese?

[MOSHE]

This is a common thing in Chinese Martial Arts. "Teaching how I was taught" would not get me very far at all because the majority of people I have met over the years simply could not handle the way I was taught!! And so, we change things to suit our needs. It's what makes us human.

So, you also teach in Chinese?

It's look like

[Happy Tiger]

Does internal work/ development figure in to this subject?In it's purest sense, is this an 'internal' skill?

[imperialtaichi]

During fighting/sparring I'm always moving/stepping anyway. Never have to worry about kicking while 50/50 or 70/30 or even 100/0 anyway.

[GlennR]

Superb IMHO you hit the nail right on the head here.

I also think there may be too many people who misunderstand what 'shadowless' means too because I was taught that it isn't so much about 'hiding detectable' signs that you are about to kick, it was all about 'deception' and the simple fact that when I kick, my aim is for the movement to be so fast that it IS shadowless and the same really applies to our hands and weaponry too

That, FME, is pretty difficult

Good point, its the deception that is the key.

[GlennR]

Too bad you take it this way , I just share bite of what I know and you are simply missunderstooding the serious of what I received which let no place for fantasy
That's no arrogance , just a not compromised way
To keep things like I received without disgression
Focus more about the logic I try to put forward than my writing style

Your logic is fine Moshe, but so are the other views.

Wing Chun is styles within a style, there the rear weighted guys (like you), the 50/50 guys, wide stance, narrow goat stance, elbows in, elbows out.... gee the fundamentals of the punch even changes between lineages/styles

Its just like boxing, styles within a style, bobbers & weavers, upright straight punching stylists, head on centre, head to one side..... some even weight the rear foot (the old timers in particular)

Only difference is that they sort it in the ring and WCers sort it on a forum

[Happy Tiger]

So are we coming to the idea that NSK is part structure and part distraction\ deception? How does this apply when the bridge is connected?

[Happy Tiger]

I'm here to tell ya, no shadow kicking is possible from double weight. I'm interested in the 'T' step and it's role in abedextarity of kicking and deployment of NSK.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Trying to maintain a certain percentage of your weight on a particular foot in a confrontation is not happening. You will be moving fast and furious, so the percentage of weight will be running up and down from side to side faster than you can keep up with it. If you shift your weight it tells the opponent to move back or side step because a foot is just about to come his way. The best way to deal with this is to just walk about kicking from just about every foot position. Your kick is going to come up and make contact so fast it will not even make a shadow anyway, and it will be right back on the ground again. You don't always have to kill him with every kick anyway, and any kick will cause pain or disrupt his focus, which is most times what the purpose of the kick is.
As a young man I did a lot of footwork training, sometimes to music even. I would practice moving across a room or the yard as quickly as possible and still maintain my stance somewhat as good as possible, and I always tried to end up in a position to throw a powerful punch or kick. I would sometimes just scoot about the yard kicking. I can kick as well with my weight evenly distributed between my legs, and I can kick as well with my weight on the front or lead foot. The kick shoots out as I am changing to a rear foot bracing move.
It is practice that makes us perfect.

[wingchunIan]

So are we coming to the idea that NSK is part structure and part distraction\ deception? How does this apply when the bridge is connected?

Same applies. Move the lower body independant of the upper body so as not to telegraph the kick and distract with the hands, jut, lap, gum, can all be applied from contact and at least one hand is normally free to hit.

[wingchunIan]

Too bad you take it this way , I just share bite of what I know and you are simply missunderstooding the serious of what I received which let no place for fantasy
That's no arrogance , just a not compromised way
To keep things like I received without disgression
Focus more about the logic I try to put forward than my writing style

Moshe, since you started posting everything you've posted is pure fantasy (Ip Man deliberately taught everyone a watered down version of Wing Chun and only taught the real version to your sigung lol). You also haven't answered my question (as usual). As you made the statement that if you mix stances it is not Wing Chun and are adamant that the weight must always be on the rear leg I ask again do you do YGKYM or saam bok ma? Come to think of it have you been shown the MYJ form? I come from a lineage that heavilly favours the rear weighted stance and for very good reason but we also favour a square on stance and turning as the situation dictates.

[LoneTiger108]

So are we coming to the idea that NSK is part structure and part distraction\ deception? How does this apply when the bridge is connected?

IMHO There are specific lines of attack of the feet that we can obstruct, rather than distract, an opponent from actually 'seeing' by using set hand methods that cover the lines. The hands don't necessarily have to distract you or draw your attention, they can be very subtle and literally 'hide' the leg and footwork for you. Then the foot travels super fast! Shadowless, if you will.

The deception idea has been touched on before, using the seurng lansau from Chum Kiu as a launch pad for the legs, and maintaining a steady upper body while we first lift the leg. These two bar arms also block your opponents view of your legs, if you are at the correct range