Wite Crane form taught by Gin Foon Mark??

[taichi4eva]

In the David Chin lineage, do you practice only 1 form then? I like the 1 form, 1 style concept.

[htowndragon]

we more or less just did away with the forms and do drills. there are more sets for sure. the seniors like Chris Heintzman know them (like plum flower fist, our most advanced set as well as others).

[jdhowland]

Thanks everyone. Does anybody know what Ng Yim Ming exactly taught?...

Most mainland lineages of Hop Gar (i.e. Deng family) teach siu lohan, dai lohan, and fu hok seung daau. Is that just a mainland thing?

Ng sigong seems to have taught different curricula at different times. He knew some of the Wong Hen Wing sets. He taught some things in Hong Kong that apparently weren't taught in his short-lived San Francisco school. He taught one type of fighting to Hung members and another to the youth gangs. David Chin used to claim eight sets of Hop Gar.

My sifu claims to be Ng Yim Ming's senior representative in the U.S. but his Hop Ga is from before Ng's arrival here. We have five fighting sets and some weapons.

I don't know what remains in the mainland other than Deng family style. Deng Ga Hop Kyuhn seems to be pretty conservative but uses some Hung Ga terminology and it is difficult to separate the Siu Lam from the Lama style in what I have seen of their sets.

[taichi4eva]

Hi jdhowland,

May I ask who your sifu is? What are the Wong Hon Weng sets?

I noticed that most of the Tibetan White Crane branches share at least names of sets in common (chut yup bo, tit lin kuen, luk like kuen, etc.), while with Hop Gar and Lama, there doesn't seem to be many forms in common. Apart from the Chan Tai San lineage, I haven't heard anyone claiming to practice lama.

[jdhowland]

=taichi4eva;1188416]Hi jdhowland,

May I ask who your sifu is? What are the Wong Hon Weng sets?

My sifu is Tse Cheuk Tong who has taught White Crane and Ng Yim Ming's Hop Ga in the U.S. since 1963, about eight or nine years before Ng, himself, arrived.

WHW, as you seem to know from your alternate spelling of the name, was Wong Yan Lum's #1 representative for some years. I don't know who, if anyone, still preserves that branch or what was taught in those days. But we do know that Harry Ng learned Lama boxing before becoming a student of WYL.

I noticed that most of the Tibetan White Crane branches share at least names of sets in common (chut yup bo, tit lin kuen, luk like kuen, etc.), while with Hop Gar and Lama, there doesn't seem to be many forms in common. Apart from the Chan Tai San lineage, I haven't heard anyone claiming to practice lama.

There are a number of teachers from Choy Yit Gung's lineage who call their system "Sai Johng Maht Jung Lama Paai." We also use the term "Lama Kyuhn" to refer loosely to the White Crane/Hop Ga systems in general and to pre-Republic era versions in which sets and names were not so standardized.

[taichi4eva]

May I ask if there are any names of sets that may clue in to pre-Republican forms?

The version of Tibetan White Crane that I am learning is unique in that the sets are not all straight line like the ones coming from Cheung Kwok Wah or Chan Hak Fu. There are cross sets, and ones using circular footwork. We have a form called siu lau sing, which looks somewhat like Hop Gar Siu Lo Han in that it uses the side body approach.

[jdhowland]

May I ask if there are any names of sets that may clue in to pre-Republican forms?

The version of Tibetan White Crane that I am learning is unique in that the sets are not all straight line like the ones coming from Cheung Kwok Wah or Chan Hak Fu. There are cross sets, and ones using circular footwork. We have a form called siu lau sing, which looks somewhat like Hop Gar Siu Lo Han in that it uses the side body approach.

I don't think the names are a clue because many of the names common to other styles were borrowed. You can find related sequences of moves in sets with different names among the various branches. Our white crane from Au Wing Nin has some names not common in other branches of TWC such as kau da kyuhn, tauh da kyuhn and muih fa johng, in part because he learned a lama style before learning from Ng Siu Chan. He apparently continued to teach the lama kyuhn that he learned previously while under the white crane banner.

The sets you learn in any time period reflect the interests of your teacher and are not what determines the system. This is particularly true of white crane and hop ga because the emphasis is traditionally on the training of core techniques and not on the particular sets learned.

The strait road drills are the older type of training but a sahp jih set is not necessarily modern just because of the cross pattern. Some teachers modified traditional line sets because they preferred the cross pattern. Personally I like the fact that almost all of our hop ga and white crane sets are strait road drills. It gives them a familiar flavor and sets them apart from other southern styles.

[Gru Bianca]

May I ask if there are any names of sets that may clue in to pre-Republican forms?

The version of Tibetan White Crane that I am learning is unique in that the sets are not all straight line like the ones coming from Cheung Kwok Wah or Chan Hak Fu. There are cross sets, and ones using circular footwork. We have a form called siu lau sing, which looks somewhat like Hop Gar Siu Lo Han in that it uses the side body approach.

Sorry, I am a bit curious on what your observation about the Cheung Kwok Wah sets being all straight is based upon.. mind to elaborate more?

Thanks

[taichi4eva]

Hi GruBianca,

I may have overspoke, because I have no experience with the Cheung Kwok Wah lineage. This was just my personal observation of some of the sets I have seen on Youtube.

To jdhowland,

I just finished learning mui fa jeung and kou da. Is your kou da form done in a cross pattern? I was told by my sifu that this form was used to train throws.

[jdhowland]

To jdhowland,

I just finished learning mui fa jeung and kou da. Is your kou da form done in a cross pattern? I was told by my sifu that this form was used to train throws.

Ours is a straight line set in four roads. Only a few specific throws in our set. I see it as grappling and counter-grappling to set up throws.

You must be in a related system. I've heard that only Au Wing Nin lineage had those sets. Pleased to meet you Brother.

Muih fa johng/dai johng mui fa, mihn loi jam and our Kwan Dao set are the only lama sets we have that are not straight line drills.

[Gru Bianca]

[QUOTE=taichi4eva;1188906]Hi GruBianca,

I may have overspoke, because I have no experience with the Cheung Kwok Wah lineage. This was just my personal observation of some of the sets I have seen on Youtube.
QUOTE]

It`s ok,　I was just curious to know what was your ground of opinion　you are right that on youtube you can find the usual sets but actually there are some other sets which encompass circular footworks in conjunction with the regular straight path.

[taichi4eva]

Hi jdhowland,

May I ask what are the names of the Au Wing Ning sets? Thank you for the welcome, but I'm still not sure if we're in the same family, lol. Is it the same name as the sets practiced by Steve Richards (siu hok yee, sei lo fun da, tau da, etc.)?

[jdhowland]

Hi jdhowland,

May I ask what are the names of the Au Wing Ning sets? Thank you for the welcome, but I'm still not sure if we're in the same family, lol. Is it the same name as the sets practiced by Steve Richards (siu hok yee, sei lo fun da, tau da, etc.)?

No, not the same. David Rogers has Deng family Hop Ga. Au Wing Nin was Baahk Hok and not from any Hop Ga branch.

I made an assumption based on a quick reading of one of your posts and thought I saw similar forms in "mui fa jeung" and "kou da." If the first has jeung=palms then we don't have that. We have plum blossom posts sets. There are a number of sets that sound something like "kau da" meaning seizing/striking, etc.,. Ours is a seizing and joint-locking set.

Whatever the lineage, it's still the same family--know what I mean? All recognized lama styles stem from Wong Yen Lum, Chu Chi Yu, and/or Wong Lum Hoi. Mind telling us who your sifu is?

[Gru Bianca]

.......

I made an assumption based on a quick reading of one of your posts and thought I saw similar forms in "mui fa jeung" and "kou da." If the first has jeung=palms then we don't have that. We have plum blossom posts sets. There are a number of sets that sound something like "kau da" meaning seizing/striking, head striking, etc.,. Ours is a seizing and joint-locking set.

Hi John, when you speak of seizing and joint -locking sets are you referring to Siu Kam Na and Da Kam Na?

[taichi4eva]

Here is my teacher's lineage chart.

http://lionsroar.name/david_cox_lineage.htm

He is currently living in Bradford, PA.

To jdhowland,

Yes, I meant plum flower palm, not plum flower post. Interesting how even though the forms may not be related, the kou da form I was taught and yours seem to deal with throwing. There is a kam na set, but that's higher level material that I have not gone through.