Wing Chun evolution of vtm

[JPinAZ]

Good greif, what a train wreck. I'm outta of this thread - good luck

[CFT]

Maybe he can not see how you would fit-in to his ideas and interactions? I mean, I have only seen very little of what HFY has to offer but I can say that it too can not prove it's own origins. It also revoles around the legend of Tansau Ng doesn't it? I mean, even I can't prove that my own grandmaster learnt directly from Ip Man lol!! And he was living and breathing right up to 1991!! We just have the 'words' of our teachers and the evidence in our hands andf for most this is the norm, but for others they have an urge to prove everything!!

"Proof" is a moveable feast though isn't it? The only irrefutable proof is a witnessed baisi ceremony. But really even that is unnecessary. What really counts is what you can do as an exponent of your martial art, and if you teach what you can give to your students.

[Marcelo-RJ]

One of the pieces (the others being Vikoga and Hung Fa Yi) that Benny and Lin got together to form their "black flag" "eng chun":
18 hands of Lohan from Indonesia, in this short clip demonstrated by Sifu Tio Tek Kwie (who publicly apologized for helping them creating that brand new "oldest" "Wing Chun"):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_72qh3z7Q

[LoneTiger108]

Good greif, what a train wreck. I'm outta of this thread - good luck

That's unfortunate because I would have appreciated your feedback.

"Proof" is a moveable feast though isn't it? The only irrefutable proof is a witnessed baisi ceremony. But really even that is unnecessary. What really counts is what you can do as an exponent of your martial art, and if you teach what you can give to your students.

Very sound advice.

[Hendrik]

One of the pieces (the others being Vikoga and Hung Fa Yi) that Benny and Lin got together to form their "black flag" "eng chun":
18 hands of Lohan from Indonesia, in this short clip demonstrated by Sifu Tio Tek Kwie (who publicly apologized for helping them creating that brand new "oldest" "Wing Chun"):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_72qh3z7Q

We all can learn from these. People can analyze technics and power generation to get insight on what one is doing. Thus, in a long term people will know the facts.


This type of art fujian art is different with WCK because WCK has lots of small jing . In slt there are many small jing which is referred as the Snake. Thus, the power generation is different.

Sometimes, an old movie is good to learn about these because the old 1970 movie emphasis and zoom into WCK characteristics. And are related to the idea of older wck gm in hong kong, As the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsvxEA1OM8

It is clearly says in this movie first screen, crane and snake compete becomes WCK. 1970 is the era with lots of old WCK Gm still living in hong kong by old Chinese tradition. The movie maker will not make something up to ****ed off these old WCK Gm which has influnce in the film industry.


And today these characteristics are fading away for lots of modern evolve lineages. The platform of the flags system of vtm doesnot supporting these movie type of details. It is a different platform.

Also, as the above mag main lineage of WCK, chisim Weng Chun which is in the book of vtm published is not present. Thus, one can see, weng Chun is not wing Chun. It is a different type of art.

[JPinAZ]

That's unfortunate because I would have appreciated your feedback.

No problem! If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to try to answer in another thread. I just don't want to spend/waste any more time on this flag nonsense

[desertwingchun2]

Thus, one can see, weng Chun is not wing Chun. It is a different type of art.

Hey Hendrick why do you lie to and confuse others? What kind of dharma is that? Since you like videos so much, watch this video and pay attention around 4:40. This gentleman represents one of the lineages you cite. Pay attention. There is no deflecting this spoken word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo

Your slip is showing little lady.

Poor Hendrick I have compassion for your tortured mind.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=desertwingchun2;1181677]Hey Hendrick why do you lie to and confuse others?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo

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Personal comments do not help. On substance you are talking past each other.
Sergio has some good interviews in his portfolio.

[Hendrik]

Hey Hendrick why do you lie to and confuse others? What kind of dharma is that? Since you like videos so much, watch this video and pay attention around 4:40. This gentleman represents one of the lineages you cite. Pay attention. There is no deflecting this spoken word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo

Your slip is showing little lady.

Poor Hendrick I have compassion for your tortured mind.

I am refer to the hong kong magazine main branch chart above.

"Also, as the above mag main lineage of WCK, chisim Weng Chun which is in the book of vtm published is not present. Thus, one can see, weng Chun is not wing Chun. It is a different type of art."


If you don't like it go proof the the Asian wcners.


In the mean time, there is no ChiSim Weng Chun in that chart of main brach wing Chun lineage.

[Vajramusti]

I am refer to the hong kong magazine main branch chart above.

"Also, as the above mag main lineage of WCK, chisim Weng Chun which is in the book of vtm published is not present. Thus, one can see, weng Chun is not wing Chun. It is a different type of art."


If you don't like it go proof the the Asian wcners.


In the mean time, there is no ChiSim Weng Chun in that chart of main brach wing Chun lineage.

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Lots of water under the bridge on "weng" since leung Jan and Chan Wah Shun's time.
Check the differences in stances and structures.

[Hendrik]

Take a look at this the exact writing in 1890 from other WCK lineage . And see what is it Wing Chun.

the person who make the note is the student of San Kam of red boat opera wck.

http://kungfuqigong.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=14

[YouKnowWho]

weng Chun is not wing Chun.

Is "1/2 cup full" attitude better than "1/2 cup empty" attitude? Is "similiarity" attitude better than "difference" attitude?

- Zha Chuan, Hua Chuan, Hong Chuan, Tan Tui, Pao Chuan are all considered as longfist brothers.
- 7 star mantis, plum flower mantis, Taiji mantis, 6 harmony mantis, southern mantis are all consideres as mantis brothers.
- Beijing SC, Baoding SC, Tinjing SC, Mongolian SC, Shanxi SC, Yi SC are all considered as SC brothers.

Why weng Chun and wing Chun are not considered as WC brothers?

[Vajramusti]

Why weng Chun and wing Chun are not considered as WC brothers?

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Cousins maybe, The stances and dynamics are sufficiently different.

[kentchang]

Originally posted by Sifu Sergio
Where are your pictures of you learning under your sifus in the 80's? They are non existent because you (Kenneth Lin) never studied it at that time!

"*In 2000: Surabaya Indonesia – Looking for a Wing Chun teacher. Lin meets Anthony Chung Che Man of Vikoga Wing Chun."

Had Lin taken many wc lessons from Chung between 2000 -2003?

-The siauw lim do and Tim kiao are your creations from the teachings of victor leow mixed with the teachings of your other sifu's mixed with the formula of Hung Fa Yi which you modified quite ingeniously,we must admid you did a great job as you had us fooled for over a year.

- Easy to say Biu Tze is lost, it never existed in kwee king yangs teachings!!! Thats why the regression therapist said something that was never there cannot be retrieved -(Letter from Sifu Sergio to Kenneth Lin)

Only SLT (siauw lim do) and CK (Tim kiao ), no Biu Jee (Biu Tze)...

So...wonder if Lin's wc teacher knows Biu Jee.

Originally Posted by Happy Tiger
None what so ever. At least not formally. Certainly not anything remotely like what I see now from him. I felt he was more a 'fan' of VT after touching hands. I have also read that he met his first VT sifu in the early 90's. I can't imagine who that would be,but I can ask around my circles. How does anybody become a grand master of anything after a scant 10 years?

In 1999 Lin was more a 'fan' of VT, today a grand master of black flag wc suddenly appears in the Benny's commercial shop. Were there any black flag and 5 flags wc in Chinese history?

5 flags bandits, yes.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...torical-claims

5 flags wc, no! and that raises ethical issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGe1Y...eature=related

[Hendrik]

"*In 2000: Surabaya Indonesia – Looking for a Wing Chun teacher. Lin meets Anthony Chung Che Man of Vikoga Wing Chun."

Had Lin taken many wc lessons from Chung between 2000 -2003?




Only SLT (siauw lim do) and CK (Tim kiao ), no Biu Jee (Biu Tze)...

So...wonder if Lin's wc teacher knows Biu Jee.




In 1999 Lin was more a 'fan' of VT, today a grand master of black flag wc suddenly appears in the Benny's commercial shop. Were there any black flag and 5 flags wc in Chinese history?

5 flags bandits, yes.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...torical-claims

5 flags wc, no! and that raises ethical issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGe1Y...eature=related

As in the 70 s. hong king movies.

"Snake and crane" are the true story of WCK and technology which describe WCK. For those WCK Gm from different lineages across WCK from per 1950 are telling the truth.


The Tan Sau Ng shaolin by Pan Nam and endorse later by Ip Chun is a theory of Pan Nam in 1990. Which doesn't reflect in WCK. In fact Pan Nam evolve his art with hung kuen as one can see. That is different with the pre 1900 art such as yks, kulo, .....ect.


Some how, in late 1990s. Vtm started to believe in chinese triad is the root of WCK and fit in with the tan sau Ng story. And the flag system or shaolin WCK system ideas and creation started.

Some chisim weng Chun practitioners making claim that they are the proper way of wck because Gm Ip Man learn from their teachers in hong kong, knowing not that Ip Man WCK is just a lineage in WCK. One can see the teaching of other WCK lineages which support ip man lineage, and these WCK lineages has no contact with chisim weng Chun. Also, chisim WCK doesn't not train or use the same type power generation with WCK. Thus, weng Chun is not wing Chun.



Imo, There are three technics areas why black flag is not WCK but the other art.

1. The hand technics of black flag is not following the WCK slt, wooden dummy , of keep in the center line domain Frontal . Instead, black flag goes beyond the center extended to the side.


2. Black Using a jerk power generation rather then WCK smooth power. Notice it always has to jerk instead of WCK where one is in touch as applied a force without that jerk.

3. The snake or small jing of WCK is not emphasis. Basic core wck technics, Tan sau , snake LAN sau are missing.