Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 128

Thread: Iron palm/body questions

  1. #1

    Iron palm/body questions

    So let me ask you guys something. If iron palm/body/leg/whatever is realy all it's cracked up to be why aren't there any legitimate professional full contact fighters who have it as a part of their training routine?

    I've seen Thai fighters kick though maple baseball bats, and those are hard. That's without anything beyond heavy bag, pads, and sparring.

    Also another question. How much, if any, do you think iron palm increases the resistance of bones to fracture and breakage in pounds per square inch?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Pound Town
    Posts
    7,856
    performance enhancing drugs

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    So let me ask you guys something. If iron palm/body/leg/whatever is realy all it's cracked up to be why aren't there any legitimate professional full contact fighters who have it as a part of their training routine?

    I've seen Thai fighters kick though maple baseball bats, and those are hard. That's without anything beyond heavy bag, pads, and sparring.

    Also another question. How much, if any, do you think iron palm increases the resistance of bones to fracture and breakage in pounds per square inch?
    How do you know they don't?, and I have no idea about the last one.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,230
    nothing but a net ghost....
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    nothing but a net ghost....
    Truer Words have never been spoken

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Mich.
    Posts
    375
    Ummm....striking a heavy bag filled with dense materials IS a lower level of iron palm/body training.

    There was an article posted on here somewhere about how Pacquiao's training mimics iron palm training and leads to his "heavy hands" and punching power for his weight.
    "God gave you a brain, and it annoys Him greatly when you choose not to use it."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,230
    So Kevin73,

    If its a LOW level as you hint at.

    What pray tell would the advanced methods be?
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    So let me ask you guys something. If iron palm/body/leg/whatever is realy all it's cracked up to be why aren't there any legitimate professional full contact fighters who have it as a part of their training routine?

    I've seen Thai fighters kick though maple baseball bats, and those are hard. That's without anything beyond heavy bag, pads, and sparring.

    Also another question. How much, if any, do you think iron palm increases the resistance of bones to fracture and breakage in pounds per square inch?
    My understanding is that native Thai fighters practice their shin kicks against banana trees which is a form of iron shin conditioning. As far as your question of why more full contact fighters don't practice...that's a good question. Have you ever crossed hands with somebody who has done iron bone conditioning for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years?

    The science of Wolff's law is well-known. We even observe the opposite effect regularly in astronauts who go to space. Not sure why you're so adamant in denying what science has come to understand through years of observation, hypothesis, and experimentation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    22,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    So let me ask you guys something. If iron palm/body/leg/whatever is realy all it's cracked up to be why aren't there any legitimate professional full contact fighters who have it as a part of their training routine?

    I've seen Thai fighters kick though maple baseball bats, and those are hard. That's without anything beyond heavy bag, pads, and sparring.

    Also another question. How much, if any, do you think iron palm increases the resistance of bones to fracture and breakage in pounds per square inch?
    Different systems use different methods.
    Old time boxers ( like Marciano for example) used heavier sand bags and punched with ether bare hands or just wraps to condition their hands.
    Thai boxers use the HB and other methods.
    TCMA use their methods as do the JMA and OMA and KMA.
    In Kyokushin we used a variety of methods.

    In boxing we do drills where we are being hit to get used to taking shots, this is the boxing version of Iron Body.

    I think you are trying to find issues with something that you think is something that it isn't.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    I remember back in the '90s, world-class boxer Kostya Tszyu claimed that he practiced iron palm as part of his training, and he said that it helped him.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin73 View Post
    Ummm....striking a heavy bag filled with dense materials IS a lower level of iron palm/body training.
    You're making my point for me. They're doing something which is both increasing thier striking power and allowing them to practice combinations. As for the conditioning of the hands, considering these guys do it full time as professionals with power which dwarfs most fighters by leaps and bounds but then are quite prone to hand breakage when getting into bare knuckle fights.... Again. Where's the benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Different systems use different methods.
    Old time boxers ( like Marciano for example) used heavier sand bags and punched with ether bare hands or just wraps to condition their hands.
    And those guys wouldn't be able to stand and bang in the ring with the fighters of today or twenty years ago so this doesn't help your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Thai boxers use the HB and other methods.
    They use the Heavy bag and Thai pads. Also I'd keep in mind that by the time they're 30 many pro Thai boxers have major issues because of the beating their bodies have taken. So again, not the best sample group to draw from.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    TCMA use their methods as do the JMA and OMA and KMA.
    In Kyokushin we used a variety of methods.
    Ask someone like Bas Rutten who did Kyokushin whether any of that iron

    [QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1186731]In boxing we do drills where we are being hit to get used to taking shots, this is the boxing version of Iron Body.[\quote]
    And that is actually justifiable. You need to learn how to take shots. But boxing, jma, and oma, generally also prescribe a much more serious training regimen. At least the traditional schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I think you are trying to find issues with something that you think is something that it isn't.
    No. And I have fought more than a few "iron" guys and all of them should have spent more time learning how to actually fight than on their conditioning methods. The jma and oma guys could actually fight decently at least but didn't try touting their magical iron conditioning.

    And as a side not I didn't start this thread to bash iron conditioning. I was lookin for any kind of scientific data, or assumptions on the subject.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    10,852
    machida uses makiwara. and that just one guy really quickly off the top of my head. and he was a champ for a while too. there are more. do your own research. this vid shows him using it. and yes makiwara is a form of 'iron' type conditioning. dont get attached to the name 'iron' its just a name. hand conditioning and other body part conditioning has been used in all martial arts through out all time. mma uses it too just doesnt call it iron. what do you think getting hit over and over does to you? duhhhhh

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/4/...s-strategy-for

    attachment is the way to death, fluidity is the way to lilfe

    musashi.

    some people are so obsessed with trying to debunk things that are just plain common sense, they cant see the forest for the trees.
    Last edited by Lucas; 09-07-2012 at 11:41 AM.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    So let me ask you guys something. If iron palm/body/leg/whatever is realy all it's cracked up to be why aren't there any legitimate professional full contact fighters who have it as a part of their training routine?
    Well, palm conditioning is a real thing. You don't see MMA guys do palm strikes too often, though (maybe some Sakuraba style stuff). I assume there are no rules preventing this type of strike. A punch has better range than a palm strike so more guys punch. A punch also better protects the fingers.

    Also, real fighting is very instinctive, and making a fist to generate power is more instinctive than using a palm. Not to mention, a tightly clenched fist allows more overall tension to be generated thus more powerful strikes can be generated.

    I suspect palm strikes would work best from a grappling range when you're already close and distance isn't an issue.

    Professional fighters do body conditioning. They don't call it "iron body" but they get struck a lot and it increases their ability with withstand strikes in the future. There's no silly qigong component to it. It just happens as part of their training. I don't know if any guys do specific body conditioning training outside of sparring, but I'm sure some probably have at some point.

    Most of the "iron body" demos you see are just stage tricks and physics tricks and are blamed on "qi" and designed to make people who want to believe think you have mystic powers. I have written at length about this in other posts so there's no reason to repeat myself here, but if any qigong-based iron body practitioner wanted to show that he was actually using qi rather than physical conditioning and stage tricks, there are easy ways to do so. So far, no one has done it.

    So obviously you don't see any of that stuff with professional fighters because they are more concerned with improving their fighting rather than impressing people who want to believe with mystic stage tricks.

    I've seen Thai fighters kick though maple baseball bats, and those are hard. That's without anything beyond heavy bag, pads, and sparring.
    Muay thai shin conditioning is basically the same thing as iron palm. The bone gets denser because of Wolff's law. Resistance to pain is increased because of a gradual increase in training intensity. Some Muay Thai guys use some liniment. You can use jow, or that peppermint smelling stuff, or Arnica if you believe in homeopathy, or just regular massage, or whatever. The point is to stimulate blood flow. There's no qigong involved in Muay Thai shin training. Iron palm will likely work just as well without the qigong component.

    Also another question. How much, if any, do you think iron palm increases the resistance of bones to fracture and breakage in pounds per square inch?
    I'm not sure if this has been quantified. You may be able to find more if you Google "Wolff's law".
    Last edited by IronFist; 09-07-2012 at 01:15 PM.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    My understanding is that native Thai fighters practice their shin kicks against banana trees which is a form of iron shin conditioning. As far as your question of why more full contact fighters don't practice...that's a good question. Have you ever crossed hands with somebody who has done iron bone conditioning for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years?
    It is worth mentioning that banana trees have a rubbery bark.

    It's not like they kick palm trees like in the movie "Kickboxer."

    And I think most guys use heavy bags now anyway.

    Everyone hears that Muay Thai guys used to kick trees and they think that's the secret to legendary fighting powers. Your heavy bag is fine, and is probably better.

    The science of Wolff's law is well-known. We even observe the opposite effect regularly in astronauts who go to space. Not sure why you're so adamant in denying what science has come to understand through years of observation, hypothesis, and experimentation.
    Yup.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    22,250
    [QUOTE=Lucas;1186780
    some people are so obsessed with trying to debunk things that are just plain common sense, they cant see the forest for the trees.[/QUOTE]

    This.
    Fact is that its the name and the bad rep given to it by some "muble-jumbo" guys that ruins it.
    Almost all striking arts have some form or another of iron hand/iron body work, whatever they choose to call it.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •