A little WC during clinch practice

[SAAMAG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6qXe...e_gdata_player

[Wu Wei Wu]

Nice work.

I can see how this type of practice and tempo could be useful.

Suki

[SAAMAG]

Thanks. I posted this to show how some of us use WC differently...in this case during a clinch session. This idea of WC being a tool for use in the clinch was something that was discussed here some time ago by myself and a couple others.

The reason it's not done lightning fast is because I'm matching his movement, no sense in going fast when the point is to work the clinch. If we added in the punches, dirty boxing, and so forth then yea.

[Phil Redmond]

I like it but you'll get the non-combatants that will say where is the Wing Chun. They have blinders. lol Good work brother.

[SAAMAG]

Hey Phil!

Long time. I guess you figured out that Vankuen changed his name. ; ) I generally stopped posting because of the repeated rhetoric and constant bickering about politics and trivial non-fight related subject matter.

Is Victor still here too?

-Van

EDIT: oops disregard. I just read about him and T'. Hopefully Robert C is still around and active along with yourself.

[Wayfaring]

Thanks. I posted this to show how some of us use WC differently...in this case during a clinch session. This idea of WC being a tool for use in the clinch was something that was discussed here some time ago by myself and a couple others.

The reason it's not done lightning fast is because I'm matching his movement, no sense in going fast when the point is to work the clinch. If we added in the punches, dirty boxing, and so forth then yea.

I like that you are training in a live unrestricted movement fashion, and that you are using gear and training methods from your MT training to enhance WCK training.

What I don't like is that the entire exercise is done in clinch range, but there is no clinch. In WCK terms there is no bridge. At that range a clinch (either Thai plum, angle + WCK bridge contact, or wrestling variations) serves to limit your opponent's movement while keeping your movement free such that you can dictate where the fight goes and hit without getting hit, or execute a takedown. Without that element it is two people staying in the pocket in a lucky strike situation. Or like rock-em-sock-em robots. Whichever robot is stronger or has a harder head knocks the others block off.

In all disciplines that I'm familiar with in this area (WCK, MT, Boxing, Wrestling, MMA) the idea is to hit without getting hit. Range and a clinch or bridge are the tools that make that happen. Getting in, striking, and getting out are key for many of the movement based systems (Boxing, MT, MMA) or Getting in, striking, clinching, and striking with movement (Thai plum), or takedowns (MMA). Science or technique should provide tools to allow you to hit without getting hit.

I can see the value in a drill like that maybe as a burnout series at the end of a sparring round for conditioning purposes and/or training to finish an opponent when you have them in trouble. But that would be more of a high-paced drill as opposed to the touch/timing pace you are going.

I could care less whether or not drills "look like WC".

.02 from the peanut gallery. You're going in the right direction, keep refining.

[SAAMAG]

I agree with you and thats very good insight, which I expected from those that also cross train in this area. I'm actually working with a student at his level to give him something different to work with. This was actually just a minute or so of several rounds of thai pluum. He's doing his best to try and get grips with me, but just can't get achieve it there. Eventually he figures out how to get to clinching again, but for that minute he was thrown off.

[Wayfaring]

I agree with you and thats very good insight, which I expected from those that also cross train in this area. I'm actually working with a student at his level to give him something different to work with. This was actually just a minute or so of several rounds of thai pluum. He's doing his best to try and get grips with me, but just can't get achieve it there. Eventually he figures out how to get to clinching again, but for that minute he was thrown off.

Good stuff. Of course short video clips don't show the whole story

[wingchunIan]

ok, I'll say it "I don't see any wing chun" for that matter I don't see any clinching either. There is boxing a plenty. As far as the "typical of a non fighter" rhetoric is concerned before anyone starts (well anyone else apart from Phil who has already said it), I've had my share of fights, real ones and whilst it rarely looks pretty the Wing Chun that I know and love doesn't look like boxing either. In the interests of discussion I'd love someone to point out the Wing Chun in the clip.
I'm not knocking the training btw it looks good fun and a decent work out. As I always say each to their own.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I see some close range boxing, but no clinch as WCIan has pointed out. I am a fan of doing some boxing on the inside as it often gets ignored in favor of other skills, and it can be devistating.

However, in a typical martial arts setting bending your head forward that close to someone means that you are giving up the grappling clinch like a prom date. That's my only real concern.

[SAAMAG]

The student was working Muay Thai clinching. However, when I switched to WC on him during the session he no longer could get any grips and had to figure out what to do with it. Thats why you don't see the clinch in its traditional manner.

The other two guys where working hooks and uppercuts inside the pocket, finding and guarding openings. They were purposely not clinching.

As far as the WC you don't see, the principles being used here should be plain as day obvious. But that really depends on you're interpretation of what WC is. As the years have gone on, I see it more as control in the bridge/clinch range than one where you are doing a bunch of slappedy nonsense with a backfist thrown in.

Sticking, spreading, rotating/deflecting, subduing, chi, tan, bong, fook...the energies work extremely well during clinchwork...be it Thai, Greco, MMA, or otherwise.

[HumbleWCGuy]

The other two guys where working hooks and uppercuts inside the pocket, finding and guarding openings. They were purposely not clinching.

They need to pull their head up. Punching with the head so far down like that in a martial arts setting will get you smoked.

[SAAMAG]

The purpose for that drill is to help them learn for themselves how to position on the inside where hooks and uppercuts are used. I know what they were doing and what needs to be corrected, but I appreciate your concern.

Before you give advice on inside body position and talking about head position and posture, you should watch this, and/or learn some boxing. High stances and chins only work in theoretical wing chun.

You want to be low, elbows down, and compact. Your head down and shoulders up. Your stance really defends most body hooks, turning does the job more often than not. Uppercuts are palmed ideally with the opposite side hand as you counter sink your body. Now they were far from perfect, chins exposed, shoulders not up, stance not wide enough, hands not in the right position, and the list goes on. The head being low though? Nope...you want that.

Note in the video below...that they are forehead to forehead many many times. Also note that the guys getting hit the worst are the ones that rise up and stand tall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r435ensNd40&sns=em

[GlennR]

They need to pull their head up. Punching with the head so far down like that in a martial arts setting will get you smoked.

Boy youve got that backwards

[GlennR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6qXe...e_gdata_player

Guys up front, all good standard light work done in the pocket.

All good with the guys up the back except (from my WC perspective) to much "searching" with the hands at punching range, id be bridging with a punch and working from that

Nicely done!