A little WC during clinch practice

[SAAMAG]

Guys up front, all good standard light work done in the pocket.

All good with the guys up the back except (from my WC perspective) to much "searching" with the hands at punching range, id be bridging with a punch and working from that

Nicely done!

I agree...normally I'd be punching a lot. I generally don't stay in that range unless I'm hitting the other guy. This was a drill though with no punching whatsoever. I wanted him working knees and elbows though once he found a dominant tie/grip. He DID do that though later in the session. Still has some to learn to keep things compact and use his longer limbs to get as much leverage as possible.

I've always got something I'm working on too...after all...student first teacher second.

[Frost]

guys in front nice light work, would have liked to see more overhands and a bit more close body contact: ie using the shoulder to shock the guy away to make an opening and i thought they might be a bit too square to each other but i was always taught this drill starting oposite shoulder to shoulder and stay touching so maybe im biased lol

guys at back i personally dont like the hand reaching and grabbing the opponents arms, i know strikes werent allowed but it builds bad habits for me anyway, guy in white t-shirt looked new and hesitate to go for the plum sort of stood in range and let you work on him, he should be a bit more proactive, but only minor points it looked like fun and is good training!

[SAAMAG]

No worries...I was reaching and giving him my arms to work with and just messed with him a bit to spice it up. He does get over it eventually, but then I switched back from chi sao clinch to standard Muay Thai.

I may upload a couple rounds worth one of these days.

[wingchunIan]

As far as the WC you don't see, the principles being used here should be plain as day obvious. But that really depends on you're interpretation of what WC is. As the years have gone on, I see it more as control in the bridge/clinch range than one where you are doing a bunch of slappedy nonsense with a backfist thrown in.

lol that logic is the same as taking a Lexus badge and sticking it on a Ford, adding in some Lexus mats and saying that you're driving a Lexus.
As for

a bunch of slappedy nonsense with a backfist thrown in

I couldn't say, we don't have backfists of any kind in the Wing Chun that I've been taught and none of our strikes are slaps either. I didn't really watch the guys at the back as i presumed they were relatively inexperienced and not meant to be the subject of the clip but as far as the foreground goes I'm still in the dark as to the Wing Chun used.

[Frost]

lol that logic is the same as taking a Lexus badge and sticking it on a Ford, adding in some Lexus mats and saying that you're driving a Lexus.
As for I couldn't say, we don't have backfists of any kind in the Wing Chun that I've been taught and none of our strikes are slaps either. I didn't really watch the guys at the back as i presumed they were relatively inexperienced and not meant to be the subject of the clip but as far as the foreground goes I'm still in the dark as to the Wing Chun used.

i think the guys in front were practising basic inside boxing drills, not wing chun, i think the wing chun was meant to be happening in the bak ground

[SAAMAG]

Yep, guys in the bottom corner were doing a boxing drill, guys in the back were actually in the middle of a thai clinching session. Ive already explained the clip is a portion of a longer session which I'm sure Ian has read.

He is a talented out-fighter just not too much experience on the inside or in grips. That's why I'm not teeing off. I'm giving him opportunity to learn without overloading. I realize many in the WC circles enjoy going to town on their students and film it to make themselves feel better but I have no need for that. I work at just above the level of the student.

The point to this is that using WC principles and energy in the clinch is perfectly viable. Actually, I used it to react to his movement and avoid the clinch technically. Something that was discussed here some time ago. Some feel wing chun was designed for the clinch, others not so much. IMO WC is energy and intent, not specific hand forms. It doesn't require doing a bunch of pak sao's, tan da's, or the like to be defined as a WC skill. But what's happening there is pure WC developed principles.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Boy youve got that backwards

Go to a Muay thai gym, ask to spar, and see what happens when you lean your head on a guys shoulder or look at the floor while you punch. The fact that you find the boxing acceptable is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the clinch.

Inside boxing punches are great and often neglected. The problem is that if you are going to use them in mma or kickboxing, you can't come in like a boxer and lay your head on someone or be lazy with your punches as those guys are doing. You have to stay clear of the grabs and be crisp.

[SAAMAG]

I understand where you're coming from. But they weren't kickboxing nor were they working in the Muay Thai sense. They were doing the drill in the context of boxing.

Unfortunately, since they're human and had been working for the past 2.5 hours, they may have been making some mistakes. Can't all be perfect like you brotha.

[k gledhill]

I understand where you're coming from. But they weren't kickboxing nor were they working in the Muay Thai sense. They were doing the drill in the context of boxing.

Unfortunately, since they're human and had been working for the past 2.5 hours, they may have been making some mistakes. Can't all be perfect like you brotha.

What! You're not perfect? Crazy talk ; )

[HumbleWCGuy]

Unfortunately, since they're human and had been working for the past 2.5 hours, they may have been making some mistakes. Can't all be perfect like you brotha.

I don't expect perfection. I do not claim to be perfect. There is also no reason to get defensive over mistakes. You have to expect that posting a clip will allow others to point out what you may not have noticed.

[YouKnowWho]

WC during clinch practice ...

If you don't train the following situations, you are not truly training your clinch.

- wrist grab,
- arm wrap,
- elbow control,
- under hook,
- over hook,
- head lock,
- bear hug,
- waist wrap,
- back neck control,
- ...

You may not like to use move such as under hook, but since you can't prevent your opponent from using it on you, you have to train "how to deal with it".

[GlennR]

Go to a Muay thai gym, ask to spar,

I train Muay Thai, 3-4 times a week , have for 4 years, and spar 2 of those days.
You?
By all means lets have a discussion about MT, i look forward to it.

and see what happens when you lean your head on a guys shoulder or look at the floor while you punch. The fact that you find the boxing acceptable is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the clinch.

You were initially commenting about the the two guys at the front, close range boxing you called it, and then went on to say you "wouldnt bend the head" Id call that tucking the chin.
The men were boxing: Lesson one..... tuck the chin

Inside boxing punches are great and often neglected. The problem is that if you are going to use them in mma or kickboxing, you can't come in like a boxer and lay your head on someone or be lazy with your punches as those guys are doing. You have to stay clear of the grabs and be crisp.

Who was talking about MMA?
They were doing a boxing drill at close range.... but hey you knew that ,as you said" I am a fan of doing some boxing on the inside as it often gets ignored in favor of other skills, and it can be devistating"

[SAAMAG]

I don't expect perfection. I do not claim to be perfect. There is also no reason to get defensive over mistakes. You have to expect that posting a clip will allow others to point out what you may not have noticed.

I have no problem with people noticing things. I do wonder however why people assume things and/or don't read posts preceding their own to understand the context of what's being done.

I also don't understand why people think they need to "correct" or teach others in arts they don't train in or have no idea of the level of training the poster has. I've trained in Muay Thai for over 20 years. Boxing for nearly the same. Wing Chun for longer.

Your thoughts are appreciated however.

[SAAMAG]

If you don't train the following situations, you are not truly training your clinch.

- wrist grab,
- arm wrap,
- elbow control,
- under hook,
- over hook,
- head lock,
- bear hug,
- waist wrap,
- back neck control,
- ...

You may not like to use move such as under hook, but since you can't prevent your opponent from using it on you, you have to train "how to deal with it".

I agree. But what if your WC was good enough relative to the opponent to be....ANTI CLINCH?! Kinda like WT's anti-grappling! I'm kidding mind you. It was a break from the normal clinching as noted before your post.

[SAAMAG]

But let's chat about one aspect. Who here thinks that WC is a viable tool for clinch work?