Five ranges in fighting

[imperialtaichi]

I generally look at fighting in 6 ranges (generalized):

1. pre-contact range: this is really where the confrontation begins
2. kicking range
3. punching range
4. elbow range
5. clinch range
6. ground

While different arts tend to focus on and dominate different ranges, I believe we need to be proficient in dealing with all of the ranges.

Comments?

[imperialtaichi]

Oh crap, I wrote "five" on the topic line.

I guess there are two types of people in the world, those who can't count.

[Gowgee]

While weapons can be presented at any of those stages as well, how about longer range for initial armed engagement etc too?

[imperialtaichi]

While weapons can be presented at any of those stages as well, how about longer range for initial armed engagement etc too?

Definitely. Any personal experience? Advices from your teacher etc?

[Raipizo]

I generally look at fighting in 6 ranges (generalized):

1. pre-contact range: this is really where the confrontation begins
2. kicking range
3. punching range
4. elbow range
5. clinch range
6. ground

While different arts tend to focus on and dominate different ranges, I believe we need to be proficient in dealing with all of the ranges.

Comments?

I definitely agree if you're not prepared to fight on the ground or standing you're not ready really.

[imperialtaichi]

I definitely agree if you're not prepared to fight on the ground or standing you're not ready really.

I don't like the ground, because I like to give myself the opportunity to run and escape. And for that very reason, I NEED to know the ground, so I can deal with it and get out of trouble.

I must admit tho, my ground work is very average. If you manage to keep me there you'd probably beat the crap out of me

[stonecrusher69]

I generally look at fighting in 6 ranges (generalized):

1. pre-contact range: this is really where the confrontation begins
2. kicking range
3. punching range
4. elbow range
5. clinch range
6. ground

While different arts tend to focus on and dominate different ranges, I believe we need to be proficient in dealing with all of the ranges.

Comments?

This sounds like a JKD question..To me there is only one range,and that is the fighting range.If you can reach me with some weapon your in fighting range.If you cant then there is no fight yet. Another way I look at it is if I can touch you im in fighting range if i cant I need to move in. Whether one uses there knee,elbow,fist,leg who care. Fighting is fighting

[YouKnowWho]

The "elbow range" and "clinch range" are hard to separate.

- Judo guys may consider wrist (sleeve) hold as clinch range because their long sleeve Gi.
- SC guys may consider elbow hold as clinch range because their short sleeve jacket.
- MT guys may consider back neck hold as clinch range because that their knee striking range.
- Wrestlers may consider underhook, overhook, ... as clinch range because they train for jacketless.

The ranges is important. You have to enter the kicking range before you can enter the punching range. When you are in clinch range, it's hard to kick, or punch. How to enter each ranges safely without been hit is important. I'll call that "entering strategy".

[anerlich]

I agree with YKW but think I know where John is coming from.

Elbow range and clinch range overlap to a large degree. you can both grapple and strike at this range. You can strike on the ground too, of course.

[wingchunIan]

I'm more inclined to agree with Stonecrusher. If analysis like this helps you in your training then fair enough but for me its all a bit too clinical and a bit too 2 dimensional. The old range approach doesn't factor in other scenario specific variables like the angle, body weight, momentum etc and doesn't allow sufficiently for overlaps. For example the Wing chun jic gerk, chut sun gerk etc are / can be applied in a range that most would consider punching range. From certain angles they can also be applied at what most would consider clinch range. A boxing hook is a punch but when thrown correctly is a very close range weapon thrown at the same range as elbows tend to be, as is the uppercut, both can be thrown effectively from what many would consider clinch range as can elbows. Equally the knee to the groin seems to be fairly effective in clinch range as do palm strikes to the ears. However if you change the relative angle of the combatants without increasing their distance from one another hooks, elbows etc can no longer reach and cerrtain targets may no longer be available whilst others present themselves. At the same time if an opponent is charging in weight forward and chin down then no matter the distance incoming kicks are not likely to be a concern etc etc
Its horses for courses and I used to be a believer in the range approach but now I personally find it a bit redundant

[Matt_WCK]

I generally look at fighting in 6 ranges (generalized):

1. pre-contact range: this is really where the confrontation begins
2. kicking range
3. punching range
4. elbow range
5. clinch range
6. ground

While different arts tend to focus on and dominate different ranges, I believe we need to be proficient in dealing with all of the ranges.

Comments?

The problem with this approach is that the 'ranges' above are actually groups of techniques and not distances from the opponent. Categorizing them as 'stages' of combat is equally unsuitable as it implies a sequence.

I see these more as 'stages of learning' - a valuable way of teaching set groups of techniques and their applications at a variety of distances with there being only 2 'ranges' - pre-contact and contact. But then again, I spent some time in JKD so that may have rubbed off... although I do recall a Kuen Kuit which talks about always moving into the opponent with three techniques at once (two arms and one leg) which would kind of preclude the 'ranges of combat' approach.

[YouKnowWho]

the same range as elbows tend to be, as is the uppercut, both can be thrown effectively from what many would consider clinch range ....

There are 3 stages in the clinch range:

Stage 1 - Both you and your opponent's arms are still free.
Stage 2 - At least one of you or your opponent's arm is not free.
Stage 3 - All of you and your opponent's arms are not free.

It's very difficult to remain in the 1st stage without going to the 2nd stage, and then the 3rd stage. Of course during the 1st stage of the clinch range, your opponent can move back to get out of the clinch range, or knock you down. If he fails to do that, the stage 2 and stage 3 will be followed.

In the following clip, we can see that the stage 1 and the stage 2 did not last very long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_krfr2l-TCU

[imperialtaichi]

This sounds like a JKD question..To me there is only one range,and that is the fighting range.If you can reach me with some weapon your in fighting range.If you cant then there is no fight yet. Another way I look at it is if I can touch you im in fighting range if i cant I need to move in. Whether one uses there knee,elbow,fist,leg who care. Fighting is fighting

Fair enough. There are many WC fighters who adopts your view too.

[imperialtaichi]

I agree with YKW but think I know where John is coming from.

Elbow range and clinch range overlap to a large degree. you can both grapple and strike at this range. You can strike on the ground too, of course.

Yes, I am generalizing them into categories for discussions. There's a lot of grey areas.

[Frost]

For me I like to keep it a bit more simple,
Non contact range followed by
1) Stand up (not attached ie not holding your opponent)
2) Clinch (you or your opponent have a hold)
3) Ground (probably just as well Terrence is banned he would have a wet dream here lol it’s the SBG way!)
I like this definition because I have seen way too many good kickers land their kicks from what many consider punching (and hell even elbow range) I have also seen good boxers knock people out with hooks from clinch range whilst not letting their opponent grab them
I like to keep it simple and straight forward and then hopefully there are no nasty surprises