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Thread: Link to the wc ancestors

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    Sorry
    This one
    Le Shennong bencao jing (ou WG Shen nung pen ts´ao king, Pinyin: ... Sum Nung (Cen Neng) was born in Peru in 1926 but was brought to ... Sum Nung Wing Chun Kuen Articles: Grandmaster Sum Nung ...
    Oh, Sum Nung, different lineage

  2. #62
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    Why all the secrecy??

    IMHO I believe MOSHE is talking about the Baisi Ceremony... correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the simplest answer that nobody seems to have mentioned yet.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    IMHO I believe MOSHE is talking about the Baisi Ceremony... correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the simplest answer that nobody seems to have mentioned yet.
    No that
    But really something to achieve the teaching and to open the last door

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    No that
    But really something to achieve the teaching and to open the last door
    Ok.

    It wouldn't be correct for me to share what I think because from what others are posting here I get the vibe that nobody really cares? I have had this discussion with quite a few of my peers and my Sifu over the years and, for me, there is only one answer. And that answer will be linked to your Baisi IMHO, whether that's a formal or private matter between yourself and your Sifu.

    I wait for you to share MOSHE
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  5. #65

    Wink

    Is this ceremony just for a cup of tea
    Or is there some true action and teaching ?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    Is this ceremony just for a cup of tea
    Or is there some true action and teaching ?
    All depends of if your Wing Chun lineage goes back before or without Ip Man

    FWIW Ours does both and my Sigung was formerly given the 'European' responsibilities of the Ip Man Martial Arts Athletic Association too. Not that it means anything today...

    Still waiting
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    All depends of if your Wing Chun lineage goes back before or without Ip Man

    FWIW Ours does both and my Sigung was formerly given the 'European' responsibilities of the Ip Man Martial Arts Athletic Association too. Not that it means anything today...

    Still waiting
    I do understand that you dont know about what I m questioning
    Last edited by MOSHE; 08-29-2012 at 09:57 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    I do understand that you do know about what I m questioning
    Someone has done their research

    So why not let the cat out the bag and get this thread started?!!
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  9. #69

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Someone has done their research

    So why not let the cat out the bag and get this thread started?!!
    Sorry wanted to write "don't know"

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    I do understand that you dont know about what I m questioning
    Moshe, nobody knows what question you are asking because you have asked a cryptic question in a badly scripted post as usual and are being deliberately obtuse in your responses to posters. FYI this doesn't make you appear sage and wise it does quite the reverse.
    For what its worth, there is only one way to talk to ancestors and that is through a psychic which I don't believe in, other than that everyone is in the same boat in that you have to rely upon the material handed down through your lineage either verbally or in writing such as the kuit kuen. We should all trust our sifus and therefore certifying anything isn't necessary, but of course information can be altered unintentionally over time as it passes from generation to generation and so the basic rule of school boy history applies, evidence is stronger the closer it originates to the source and it is only valid if corroborated by at least one independent source.
    A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.


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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunIan View Post
    Moshe, nobody knows what question you are asking because you have asked a cryptic question in a badly scripted post as usual and are being deliberately obtuse in your responses to posters. FYI this doesn't make you appear sage and wise it does quite the reverse.
    For what its worth, there is only one way to talk to ancestors and that is through a psychic which I don't believe in, other than that everyone is in the same boat in that you have to rely upon the material handed down through your lineage either verbally or in writing such as the kuit kuen. We should all trust our sifus and therefore certifying anything isn't necessary, but of course information can be altered unintentionally over time as it passes from generation to generation and so the basic rule of school boy history applies, evidence is stronger the closer it originates to the source and it is only valid if corroborated by at least one independent source.
    You see that you understood my question , but you simply failed to answer

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post

    no ,the foundation should not move and nobody after them had their knoledge to build this system

    to finish to practice something like JKD or to use basic movements of WC like a self defense has nothing to do with what i call wing chun

    Re-read the final paragraph of my previous post.

    I don't see someone's JKD version or other martial arts mixed with a dash of Ving Tsun movements as being Ving Tsun. These things can work (some of them pretty well!), but they don't follow Ving Tsun strategies (Loi Lao Hoi Sung Lat Sao Jik Chung, Chiu Ying, Lin Sil Di Da, body mechanics of how to make these happen, etc.), so they are not in my eyes Ving Tsun. These strategies define what Ving Tsun is, they are its foundation. I don't see them as changing much as the system is already highly developed. However, nobody dreamed up the system as it is today overnight. Like it or not, Ving Tsun is product of evolution (as anything is in life). Now, the question of whether modifications are warranted at its mature stage of development is a whole different story.
    Dio perdona... Io no!

  13. #73
    Answer your own ridiculous question Moshe! I'm not sticking around if this thing ends up as long as the Ng Chan thread. Whatever the answer is, I am almost positive it will have no bearing of change on either anyone in this forum or anyone sane enough to realize the BS of mysticism. You have nothing more special than some on this forum or some of the wing chun Sifu's still alive today. A bit of delusion would be my bet on what you do have...

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOSHE View Post
    Sorry wanted to write "don't know"
    My speed in replying to posts has caused mistakes on numerous ocassions but now I feel silly for thinking you may even know the answer to your own question Jox!

    Maybe your link is the fact that you can't write that well, but this as far as I am aware is something that Ip Man tried to rectify. My Sigung is also known for his written curriculums and I was only suggesting that the written word and our language of Wing Chun is our families solid link to our ancestry.

    Some have used the words 'kuen kuit' to describe this but for me it is far more than that, it's the physical language we speak to eachother when we train together. These are conversations that have happend over and over again with people from distant pasts, and they happen now when we interact.

    Unfortunately even this link is being broken more these days because the families seem far too concerned with their own uniqueness we sometimes forget to look for the similarities in all of us.

    For me, we are all Wing Chun students. And the name itself is our link to past Martial innovation.

    I'm writing this as I watch China enter the London 2012 Paralympic Opening Ceremony with a huge team and I for one feel humbled by athletes that make all our whinging, arguing and complaints seem ridiculous.

    Train well everyone. We are the lucky ones.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  15. #75
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    What a surprise, a thread about someones vague cryptic (and somewhat smug at this stage) question and its well into its 5th page with no end in sight

    Moshe, how well can you fight with your style?

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