Why you shouldn't take strength training advice from TMAists

[RWilson]

Actually ours is not an Olympic sport, Olympic lifting is so we cant brag sorry
Although I do have a mean split snatch and powerclean if that helps!

I see no need to do circus acts, I used to do one armed and three finger push ups ,. One leg squats etc, I have most of pavel stuff now I find a better carryover from the the OL and powerlfting stuff, combined with simple jumps, throws, sprints, and I prefer to get my S and C advice from professionals, which I advice everyone here to do

The problem is that there are so many different kinds of professionals out there. There are crossfit pros, Pavel pros, bodybuilding pros, body weight pros, etc. theyvall have their "certifications" too! everyone has their gurus and you choose to follow the powerlifting ones. There are too many voices in the conditioning community.

[Frost]

The problem is that there are so many different kinds of professionals out there. There are crossfit pros, Pavel pros, bodybuilding pros, body weight pros, etc. theyvall have their "certifications" too! everyone has their gurus and you choose to follow the powerlifting ones. There are too many voices in the conditioning community.

There are many voices in the community but the successful ones do a lot of the same things, and the good ones usually don’t need to advertise on the net or run certificate courses……
Which is why you should research, and go with guys with a proven track record, where possible train with them, and where not possible communicate with them to get an understanding of the different training methods and chose the one that’s right for you
I chose powerlifting because I like to lift weights and understand the role maximum strength plays in a lot of sports (and happen to have access to a gym with 5 commonwealth gold medallists, one of whom is current world record holder in his weight category) but I don’t follow any guru hence I have trained alongside S and C coaches at a few pro sports clubs, and communicated a fair bit with a few S and C coaches in the MMA world.

[sanjuro_ronin]

TCMA used to have LOTS of strength training BUT somewhere along the lines the BS overcame it and crap became the norm.
Fact is a strong body is a good body to have.
Fact is that nothing build strength better than progressive resistance training and fact is that no tool is better, generally, for that then barbells and dumbbells.
In short, if you can deadlift and bench press and overhead press and squat with good heavy weights then you are strong and probably able to do pretty much any activity that you require, MA or otherwise.

[MightyB]

In Judo, do you allow to twist your right leg on your opponent's right leg? Do you have a name for that? Or is it still called kawazugake?

That's old school forbidden stuff. I'm not sure it's applied in the same way as SC as a throw because it's a sacrifice throw. There's also some archive video footage of Mifune using it to block throw attempts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had the previlage to do some old school Judo, pre WW2 Stuff, Kosen Judo-like stuff and there was pretty much NOTHING you COULDN'T do, LOL !
The set routnies of Judo, the Kata, were suppose tohave these moves, moves to dangerous from randori BUT moves that were very effective when COUPLED with the skills developed in randori.
The problem is that those kata were disregarded and fell by the wayside and never improved and evolved.

[MightyB]

I had the previlage to do some old school Judo, pre WW2 Stuff, Kosen Judo-like stuff and there was pretty much NOTHING you COULDN'T do, LOL !
The set routnies of Judo, the Kata, were suppose tohave these moves, moves to dangerous from randori BUT moves that were very effective when COUPLED with the skills developed in randori.
The problem is that those kata were disregarded and fell by the wayside and never improved and evolved.

I use ashi garami a lot in BJJ and it's still taught as required knowledge in most Judo schools, you just can't use it in Judo.

One of the coolest things for any grappler is to pick up a copy of Mifune's Canon of Judo. It's incredibly eye opening because you'll see BJJ's daddy. I'm not going to take anything away from the Gracies because they took it to a new level, but you really do see why old school Judoka say they don't need BJJ 'cause it's just Judo.

The Katas evolved in a bad way IMO... especially Goshin Jutsu. I have a coach that learned the old way and it's better than what's taught now.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I use ashi garami a lot in BJJ and it's still taught as required knowledge in most Judo schools, you just can't use it in Judo.

One of the coolest things for any grappler is to pick up a copy of Mifune's Canon of Judo. It's incredibly eye opening because you'll see BJJ's daddy. I'm not going to take anything away from the Gracies because they took it to a new level, but you really do see why old school Judoka say they don't need BJJ 'cause it's just Judo.

The Katas evolved in a bad way IMO... especially Goshin Jutsu. I have a coach that learned the old way and it's better than what's taught now.

If you can get your hands on these, do so:
Kawaishi judo method
THe dynamic Judo series by Kudo ( throwing and grappling).

[MightyB]

This is a good demo of Kawazu Gake at the beginning of this video clip.

One neat thing about BJJ is you get to use all of this stuff. I'm going to take it out of the closet next time I go to the BJJ mat.

[Matt_WCK]

The difference between strength and ging

http://www.kwokwingchun.com/training...ngth-and-ging/

Myths on strength training in Wing Chun

http://www.kwokwingchun.com/training...and-wing-chun/

For what it's worth, I utilise an array of cardio and strength exercises to augment my training and, during training, I use a lot of pad and bag work in addition to the usual forms, drills and partner work. The attitude I've seen in some of the clubs I've trained in is that they expect the students to do all of the cardio and strength training during their own times so as not to waste precious club time doing circuit training. I have never been told to NOT train strength or cardio for fear of being slow..

[IronFist]

There is no modern weight training method that can help you to develop this skill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NgXae8ApQE

The TCMA uses this training method.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7...adlegtwist.jpg

And?

Even if there was a training method to do that, it would be pointless. Sport specific training is useless.

I assure you anyone who knows that technique who can squat 300 or 400 pounds can perform that technique without trouble on anyone.

[IronFist]

Whoa, why is everyone talking about technique?

Who said you don't need technique?

Silly MAists, as soon as someone mentions weight lifting they're like "BUT YOU NEED TECHNIQUE!!!"

Of course you need good technique!

But strength and size are certainly not the enemy, nor are they counter productive.

A guy with good technique who can also bench 2x bodyweight and squat and/or DL 2 or 3x bodyweight, do a punch of pullups, etc., will have strong strikes.

Who do you think can hit harder? Who is in a better position when wrestling with a heavier opponent? The guy with 5 years of MA experience who is also a powerlifter, or the guy with 5 years of MA experience and the same level of technique as the first guy, but who has never touched weights because he's afraid they'll make him slow and inflexible.

(Assume neither guy has qi blast skills, cuz obviously he would hit hardest).

[YouKnowWho]

I assure you anyone who knows that technique who can squat 300 or 400 pounds can perform that technique without trouble on anyone.

Even if you can squat 300 or 400 pounds, you still don't have that "twisting" power.

Whoa, why is everyone talking about technique?

Because this is a "Kung Fu training thread". Everything has to do with "combat".

Who do you think can hit harder?

TCMA is more than just "striking". From a "striker" point of view, weight lifting may be enough. From a grappler point of view, general weight lifting is not enough. You will also need "special" weight training. This is why

"One should take strength training advice from TMAists and not from body builders"

I thought we all agreed that weight lifting will not be "required" in pole dancing in another diiscussion. We shouldn't have to go through that discussion again. For a pole dancer, to spend her training time in weight lifting is not smart.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1957/nanac.jpg

In order to be able to hold a "human flag" on the pole, one will need to "push" his lower hand, and "pull" on his upper hand at the same time. Both forces will be needed to function at the same time. Of course if you can find a training machine in modern gym that can develop pull and push at the same time, that machine may be helpful.

I found this machine is very helpful to develop "push" and "pull' at the same time.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6186/rotarytorso.jpg

[IronFist]

Even if you can squat 300 or 400 pounds, you still don't have that "twisting" power.

I said someone who knows that technique.

If they are proficient in the technique they have all the CNS efficiency required to pull it off successfully. If they can squat 300 or 400 pounds their legs and core are capable of generating sufficient tension to successfully perform the technique on anyone.

To be clear, I said someone who knows the technique.

A noob with no MA experience who can squat 300 or 400 pounds (probably) lacks the CNS efficiency to do the technique correctly because he has never trained it before. It reminds me of my weight lifting friend in college who didn't know how to punch. Dude was **** strong but had the goofiest punching form. Would it do damage to someone? Of course. But by learning proper technique he could increase its power significantly.

Technique. And strength. And technique. And strength.

Because this is a "Kung Fu training thread" and not a body building thread. Everything has to do with "combat".

This thread has "strength training" in the title.

Also, no one mentioned bodybuilding until you did just now.

TCMA is more than just "striking".

That's why I mentioned wresting with a heavier opponent. Did you even read my post?

[Faruq]

Oneday BK Frantzis asked my teacher about the Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea", when my teacher explained the application to him, Frantzis suddently moved behind my teacher, gave him a bear hug from behind, and said ,"Now what can you do?" If my teacher was not good in this move (this move was my teacher's trade mark move). My teacher won't be able to take Frantzis down that easy. The bear hug is a very power skill. The person who uses bear hug on you, he has controlled the center part of your body.

Well finish the story, bro. What did your teacher do when put on the spot? How did it end?

[YouKnowWho]

If they can squat 300 or 400 pounds their legs and core are capable of generating sufficient tension to successfully perform the technique on anyone.

In my personal experience, this is not possible. I had a lot of big strong weight lifting guys with me. Even if I had taught them this move, they still could not apply it by their strong muscle.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4981/legtwisting.jpg

I just use leg twist as an example. There are other skills such as head lock, foot sweep, leg scoop, leg sticky, ... also need "special strength training" that one can only learn from a TCMAist.