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Thread: Taguo Xiao Hong Quan Question

  1. #1
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    Taguo Xiao Hong Quan Question

    Hello everyone! I'm pretty new to this forum and have a wee question. I'm training in Xiao Hong Quan with an ex-coach from the Tagou Wushuguan who teaches where I am. I have a question about the purpose of a technique in this form, which differs from the version I've seen monks doing. When turning after zhuan shen banshou (I think that's what it's called) and shang bu tui zhang, where some videos I've seen do a kind of cover or a press with two palms down over their raised left knee after a sweep (before the kick and palm slap leading into xie xing), the Tagou version does a thrusting motion with both palms directly forward at around waist level. Just wondering why Tagou does this, or if someone can give me ideas as to why, as I'm just a beginner. Is there anyone training in Tagou now, or who has been, who can help me out?
    Last edited by Sima Rong; 09-06-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sorry, the thread title should have been 'Tagou Xiao Hong Quan Question'. Oh well, can't fix it now.

  3. #3
    I'm not familiar with the TaGou variations of the forms, but generally, they do not seem to be keeping the forms in their original frames. BTW, this is not a difference in the forms, but in the purpose of the maneuvers. Let me describe this. Every maneuver in Chinese martial arts can have an infinite number of purposes, say applications. For example, this movement, Push Both palms Over the Lifted Knee, can be used for:

    1. Supporting a knee attack: this way, in order to increase the destructive power of the knee attack, both hands may grab the opponent and move him down, while the knee strikes up. Here you move the grabbing palms down, to just above your knee. This purpose would result in a maneuver like what we see in Shi De Yang's, Shi Yong Zhi's, and most other monks' performance of Xiao Hong Quan. See minute 21:06 of this video: Shaolin Small Flood (Xiao Hong) Kung fu (A) [by Shi De Yang]

    2. Escaping the opponent's low-level sweep and attacking his upper body: Here the knee comes up to escape the opponent's sweep, while the palms do a direct stike forward. This purpose would result in a maneuver like what we see in Shi De Ci's (and as you say, in TaGou's) performance. See minute 12:25 of this video: Shaolin Small Flood (Xiao Hong) Kung fu [by Shi De Ci]

    You must notice that there would exist an infinite number of such purposes, in each of which this maneuver takes a somehow different mechanics and forcing and, of course, a different name (as we see in these two videos). All these variations are absolutely correct and one can say there would be no preference for some of these over the others. May other forum users correct me if I'm wrong.

  4. #4

    Another somehow different variation

    In this video, monk Shi Yong Zhi does almost the same as Shi De Yang, but instead of sweeping the palms around his upper body, he moves the palms forward, somehow like Shi De Ci's and Tagou's thrusting hands (maybe to grab the opponent's limb), and then pulls them down to over the raising knee (maybe to press the grabbed limb between his palms and knee):
    Shaolin Small Flood (Xiao Hong) Kung fu [by Shi Yong Zhi] (youku.com)
    Last edited by SHemmati; 09-08-2012 at 02:16 PM.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for all that information, Shemmati. Yes, I think the style of the Xiao Hong Quan form I'm training in is like Shi De Ci's one, so thanks for directing me to that video too, as I hadn't seen it before. I'll think on what I can do from there, but it's good to be aware of the other ways the form is done. I think that a direct strike with both palms puts you in a precarious position standing on one leg, but I guess it's a quick transition posture before you drop the raised knee and then swing that leg up to attack high.

    ...Actually from watching Shi Deci's video there are a few differences in other techniques from what I'm learning. To cite one example, when moving from Yun Ding Qi Xing to Ma Bu Dan Bian I lift the knee a bit more from the ground when moving into Mabu. Oh, and the Chong Tian Pao differs a bit too.
    Last edited by Sima Rong; 09-08-2012 at 10:27 PM.

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