Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Mongolian Wrestling

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    47,946

    Mongolian Wrestling

    I'm rather bummed that I missed this event. I haven't even seen the Genghis Khan exhibit at the Tech yet. I passed it several times going to TCKFMCII as it was right down the street.

    San Jose: Mongolian wrestlers best opponents in exhibition
    By Eric Messinger
    emessinger@mercurynews.com
    Posted: 06/22/2010 05:08:10 PM PDT
    Updated: 06/23/2010 10:58:09 AM PDT

    In this corner, San Jose City Councilman and former cop Pete Constant. In the other corner ... a 7-year-old boy?

    Constant was the good host, losing in the international Mongolian-style wrestling match Tuesday at San Jose's Tech Museum. Winner: Tuguldur Khishigbayar.

    "I figured I had a chance against a 7- or 8-year-old kid," Constant quipped after his defeat.

    The venue for the goodwill match was a large mat outside the museum, where a Genghis Khan exhibition opened in late May.

    Constant and four students — all connected with the San Jose State wrestling team — formed one team. Opposing them were burly Mongolian wrestlers, or "bukhs," clad in their traditional costume of leather boots, small colored briefs and a sleeveless jacket called a jodag.

    The matches between the bukhs and the students were tense and usually ended suddenly, owing to the Mongolian rules where even a knee down means defeat.

    The uniformly enormous — well, except for Constant's opponent — Mongolian team took down the American students one by one, who jokingly compared their preparation time of "a few minutes" with finely honed Mongolian technique.

    Constant, who has trimmed down 80 pounds recently, was the last hope for the American side.

    When the time came to pick his opponent, Constant cunningly avoided the burly competitors in favor of Tuguldur, a Mongolian American from the Bay Area.

    Constant lost. International incident avoided.
    Here's vid:
    Mongolian Wrestling Event to Promote Genghis Khan: The Exhibit in San Jose California
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  2. #2
    in terms of military

    1. horseman ship. the mongols may sleep on the horse, eat on the horse--


    2. archery. they were good archers on the horse. imagine, your horse is racing and you may shoot accurately on a moving target. you are moving and your target is moving, too.

    in terms of wrestling

    it is part of life and culture. after some work of herding sheeps and horses, you have much time to wrestle around from kids to adults.

    I wrestled with my mongolian high school mates all the time. I also wrestled with my moslem high school mates, too.

    mogolian and moslem cooking and dishes are my liking, too.

    never like the horse milk, but goat milk is ok for me.

    ---

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16

    Mongolian Wrestling

    On October, 1935, the Mongolian wrestling team visted Shanghai. It was 1 round match.

    1st round - Mongolian wrestler 敖爾圖那蘇圖 against Beijing wrestler 魏德海, 魏 losed.
    2nd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴圖爾 against Beijing wrestler 單世俊,單 losed.
    3rd round - Mongolian wrestler 巴達瑪 against Shanghai wrestler 李振清, 李 losed.
    4th round - Mongolian wrestler 布和 against Tienjing wrestler 畢鳳亭, 畢 losed.
    5th round - Mongolian wrestler 薩瑪達恩札木 against Tienjing wrestler 卜恩富, 卜 losed.

    In all 5 matches, Mongolian wrestlers won all 5 matches. The reason were:

    - Monglian wrestlers were in better shape.
    - Mongolian wrestler's jack is made of leather with metal nails on it. It's very hard to grab. Compare to Chinese wrestler's jacket which is made of cotton and easy to grab.

    Even sport, there is still unfairness involved if dress differently. If you are a Judo guy, will you accept Mongolian wrestler's challenge? What's your thought?

    http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9076/mscu.jpg
    http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4646/msc1.jpg
    http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5773/scjacket.jpg
    http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8333/sc6u.jpg

    1935年10月,民國“第六屆全國運動會”(10月10日至20日在上海市舉行),國術組邀請蒙古摔角隊 ,來上海參加友誼比賽,蒙古跤手在當地被稱為“草原雄鷹”。10月13日下午一時許進行了一場表演賽。上場 後,隊員上身穿黑皮製成的摔角衣,跤衣的圍頸、袖口、胸前均釘白銅釘而成旋螺形,背部釘有白銅壽字,也有釘 以佛像者。其褲有紅有白,並有圖案形的花紋,頸中套有紅、黃色條帶(每獲一次那達慕比賽冠軍,獎勵一條頸帶 ,頸帶 ​​越多越強)一直懸至胸前,足蹬長筒高靴。 出場時,以舞蹈開導,雙方每舉足互踢時,發出清脆的劈啪之聲,來回角逐,饒有興趣,再加之穿著別緻,引起全 場的注意。 次日(14日),蒙古摔角手,穿著本民族的摔角裝束與各地摔角選手作友誼比賽,規則為一跤勝負制。第一對為 敖爾圖那蘇圖(蒙)對魏德海(北平)。魏德海是北平跤場藝人,曾與沈友三、寶善林合作賣藝,是京城摔角高手 之一。兩位選手身材皆是魁梧奇偉,一經交手,不到一個回合魏即被敖傾倒於地。第二對為巴圖爾(蒙)對單世俊 (北平)。單世俊是北平跤場藝人,曾與熊德山合作賣藝,後自己另砌爐灶,設場獻技,為京城摔角高手之一。單 入場時,他為能品嚐蒙古人的技藝,故與蒙人相對時,也手舞足蹈,東搖西擺地走起了“黃瓜架”,以示歡欣之意 。雙方一開交,單想扭住巴圖爾的衣角,但蒙人摔角衣既釘滿銅釘,又是皮革所製,所以無法抓握,反而被巴圖爾 逮住衣背,反手一推,單即不支倒地。第三對為巴達瑪(蒙)對李振清(滬),李亦不到一個回合而 倒地。 此時,在旁有位老將畢鳳亭,看到蒙人如此厲害,按捺不住,即自告奮勇地挺身出場,意與蒙人決一高低,以雪三 人戰敗之恥,應戰者為布和(蒙)。警笛一響,畢即撲前搶把,相持良久,畢尚能支持,於是觀眾為其鼓掌加油。 不幸老將偶一不慎,被布和運用蠻力,將畢揮倒地上,畢老遂氣憤而退。第五對為薩瑪達恩札木(蒙)對卜恩富( 河北)。卜恩富(又名卜六),是津門摔角高手,曾拜清末善撲營二等撲戶崔秀峰為師,得以真傳,多次榮獲全國 性摔角比賽冠軍。卜恩富比蒙人較為瘦小,自知非力量能取勝,必走智取之道。故卜先採取守勢,但蒙人力大如牛 ,抓住卜的雙袖,將卜猛拖, ​​卜雖幾入危境,但巧妙應付並未倒地,卜仍等待機會。當蔔一度將薩衣袖抓住,並用頭頂住薩的前胸,同時再 起右腳,勾住薩左腳,向左轉體想用挑勾子動作,將薩摔倒,但薩體力甚大,反乘此機會,運用全身壓向卜身,兩 人同時倒地,而卜壓倒在下,又告失敗。嗣後,各地選手均裹足不前,雖尚有兩次摔角,但終告失利。究其失敗原 因,不盡體力不佳,還有蒙人所穿摔角服裝均係特製,使對方極難抓握,故有力難用,有技難施。 (摘自《話說摔跤與上海》)
    In October 1935, the Republic of China "VI National Games" (held in Shanghai in October 10), martial arts group invited Mongolia wrestling team to Shanghai to participate in friendly matches, Mongolia slipped his hand on the ground are called "steppe Eagle." October 13 at about one o'clock in the afternoon was an exhibition match. After the game, players wore black bark on wrestling clothing, fall clothing around neck, cuffs and chest are nails white copper nails and into a revolving screw-shaped, nails have nickel Silver birthday words on the back, there are nailed to Buddha. Their pants are red and white, patterns and pattern-shaped, neck has red, yellow stripe (NADAM Championship every been, rewarding a neck belt, neck with more strong) had been suspended to chest, foot pedal long tube high boots. When you play, dance channel, when each of the two parties adequate cross-kick, make a sharp crack sound, race back and forth, with keen interest, along with wearing a chic, attracted the attention of the audience. The following day (14th), Mongolia wrester, wearing their national wrestling attire and wrestling around players for friendly matches, rules for a fall victory or defeat. First pair of Ao Er tunasutu (Mongolia) to Wei Dehai (Peking). Wei Dehai is Peking falls artist, collaboration with Shen Yousan, baoshanlin the tightrope, is one of the wrestling masters in Beijing. Two tall players are tall and broad shouldered, fight, being less than a round, Wei AO dumped to the ground. Second pair of Batoul (Mongolia) to Dan Shijun (Peking). Dan Shijun was Peking falls artist, had the tightrope in cooperation with Xiong Deshan, masonry stoves themselves after another, set field will compete, as one of the Beijing wrestling master. Single admission, he can taste Mongolia people's skills, as opposed to a mengren time, dancing, East shakes Western swing to go the "cucumber", show their delight. Both sides kaijiao, wants to twist Batoul the edge of the two ends of the lower hem of a gown, but mengren wrestling clothing nailed both full copper nail, leather, it is impossible to grip, but is caught by Batoul clothes back, backhand push, that does not collapse. Third of Ba Dama (Mongolia) on Li Zhenqing (Shanghai), and has a round but fell to Lee. At this point, a veteran Bi Fengting, see mengren so badly, to incessantly that volunteered to come forward to appearances, with a high and low mengren, snow three shames of defeat, challenge to Buhe (Mongolia). Siren rang, completed before the head-bashing robbery, stalemate, and was able to support, so the audience for their applause refueling. Veteran unfortunately once in a while inadvertently, cloth, and the use of brute force, on lying, old was angry and back. Samadaen v wood (Mongolia) on the Bu Enfu (Hebei). Bu Enfu (also known as BU VI), is Jinmen wrestling master, thanks to good governance in the late Qing Pu Pu Cui Xiufeng as a teacher in Camp II, essence be taught, repeatedly won national wrestling champion. Bu En rich than mengren more thin, knowing not to win, will take the road of taking. BU defensive, but the Mongolian human big as a cow, seize the sleeves BU, Bu Meng, BU few into danger, but clever does not collapse, BU is still waiting for the chance. When BU SA sleeves and grab, and head of the tube SA-chest, while his right foot, hook-SA left foot, pick a hook to the left wanted to use actions, SA fell, but SA great physical strength, anti-took this opportunity to apply systemic pressure to BU, two people fell, BU under the overwhelming, also failed. Subsequently, the players are deterred from around, although there are still two in wrestling, but lost to the certified. Its failure, not the poor physical, also mengren wear wrestling clothes are specially made, the other is extremely difficult to grasp, so strong hard to use, hard to effect. (Taken from the words of wrestling and Shanghai)
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 09-06-2012 at 08:28 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  5. #5

    Thumbs up

    Yes.

    We are always trying to level the plain field with rules.

    Trying to have a fair game.

    By weight categories etc.

    However, rules will always favor certain techniques or certain physical attributes.

    At the end of the day,

    every body wants to win or lose fair and square.

    Skills and not luck that win the game.

    That is why we usually have 3 rounds or 3 tries to even out luck factor.


  6. #6
    1930s

    It was golden age for sports and National arts.

    peaked at Olympic Games in Berlin.

    Soon enough China and Japan were involved in 8 years of struggle.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    People in the north part of China such as mongolia or Manchu (I came from Manchu) are always much bigger because cold weather.

    http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2168/mscguy.jpg

    If we compare with the southern Chinese Bruce Lee, it's not hard to see the difference in size.

    http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9339/bruceleep.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 09-06-2012 at 10:27 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    People in the north part of China such as mongolia or Manchu (I came from Manchu) are always much bigger because cold weather.

    http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2168/mscguy.jpg

    If we compare with the southern Chinese Bruce Lee, it's not hard to see the difference in size.

    http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9339/bruceleep.jpg
    What about polynesians? Why are they so big? You sure about the cold weather thing? Look at inuit? Short limbs. I think it's a touch more complicated than cold = bigger.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    What about polynesians? Why are they so big? You sure about the cold weather thing? Look at inuit? Short limbs. I think it's a touch more complicated than cold = bigger.
    The average height of the northern Chinese is "8 cm taller" than the average height of the southern Chinese.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVQF1Dr6usU

    May be because the food that they eat. The

    - northern Chinese eat wheat,
    - southern Chinese eat rice.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-28-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The average height of the northern Chinese is "8 cm taller" than the average height of the southern Chinese.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVQF1Dr6usU

    May be because the food that they eat. The

    - northern Chinese eat wheat,
    - southern Chinese eat rice.
    I'm sure it's nuanced and due to a combination of multiple factors. Big is more than just fat. While having a blanket of fat is nice in the colder areas, I'm not sure how that would account for the height. Maybe somebody who is in this field of study can come comment. I'm just bullshittin based on tidbits of info I picked up listening to folks who know better.

    BMI always bothered me. My friends kid was designated morbidly obese but he's just a tank. Kid has an 8 pack, does one handed pull ups for days. So when the letter came home about nutrition and exercise we all had a good laugh. He's probably stronger than most of the teachers and can certainly endure with the best of em. And he's like 10.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    10,852
    diet is huge....also breeding habbits will be a huge factor as well. for instance while ont he subject if you look at samoan, the culture is for women to be attracted to the strongest man (typically going to be among the larges) and likewise, the men are attracted to the strongest women with a body type that will best support multiple children.

    over generations this is going to result in the largest, strongest people developing the next generations, so that eventually the over all cultures average size will be appropriate to the breeding history.

    also how the culture works and farms will be a big deal
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    What about polynesians? Why are they so big? You sure about the cold weather thing?
    I don't know about people but there certainly seems to be a correlation with animals. There's a strong tendency for deer, coyotes, bobcats, most mammals in general, to average a fair amount larger in the northern U.S. and Canada, than in the southern U.S.
    Even beavers and bear, which doesn't make much sense, considering they are hibernating 4 or 5 months a year.
    As you say though, I suspect there are several factors at play with humans. Hard to attribute the cold to the size of Samoans.....
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,349
    After reading this, I am now hungry for some Mongolian BBQ.
    Master of Shaolin I-Ching Bu Ti, GunGoPow and I Hung Wei Lo styles.

    I am seeking sparring partner. Any level. Looking for blondes or redhead. 5'2" to 5'9". Between 115-135 weight class. Females between 17-30 only need apply. Will extensively work on grappling.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Xi'an, P.R.C.
    Posts
    1,699
    With regards to China (not speaking about the Polynesians) it's pretty simple and only indirectly related to cold weather.

    Mongolians are taller because they are not even ethnicly Chinese. Chinese, Han Chinese especially, are basically decended from sedentary subsitance agriculural stock. ie. they are famers. Mongolians, OTOH, are decended from nomads. Central Asian nomads survive by riding and taming horses, hunting, going to war a lot and so on, all extremely stuff that demands a lot of physical size and strength.

    Northern Han Chinese are a lot taller than southern Han Chinese mainly just because they have a lot more Mongolian (and Manchurian for that matter) DNA. Mongolian hoards had been coming down from the north and raping and pillaging for 1000+ years and probably other than the Yuan dynasty, never really made it to southern China. Sure, there's the Qing (also essentially horseback riding nomads) but the Qing didn't sweep across the whole country raping and killing everyone to the degree the Yuan did. (Yuan is basically Ghengis Khan)

    Horseback warrior culture = big and strong
    Peasant farmer culture = little dudes.

    Also, mountain peoples are almost always short while plains people are almost always tall. Short means you get tired less easily climbing mountains. Tall means you can run and cover distance well even helps running down prey to exhaustion.

    The temperature thing is incidental.

  15. #15
    I think this needed to be said.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •