Chinese-Japanese Tensions Over Disputed Islands

[Sima Rong]

BBC impartial?

nope.

there is no such thing as an impartial news agency. You want impartial? You gotta dig and you gotta decide from alternate viewpoints where the truth sits by your own reckoning.

Recognize that ALL news media outlets are propaganda for the system which they serve.

Anyway, these days, believe nothing, question everything or let your political inclinations go entirely. It's hard just to keep track of who's lying these days!

Yes, exactly. It's enough to make you lose your faith in humanity, like this baby:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new...d-6-day,29588/

[David Jamieson]

Yes, exactly. It's enough to make you lose your faith in humanity, like this baby:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new...d-6-day,29588/

Ah the onion. Keeping it fresh for quite a while now. lol

[pazman]

The Chinese claim on the islands is incredibly weak.

The only support the Chinese media can find is the fact that Chinese sailors mapped it hundreds of years ago.

Japan claimed it during its annexation of Okinawa. In fact, there were no people living there or using it before the Japanese annexation. Of course, in those days, China claimed "sovereignty" over any tribute nation.

The US actually offered China the chance to retake control of the islands at the conclusion of WW2 but China declined. Of course, China also never repaid its debts or even showed any sort of gratitude to the American volunteers who helped to fight the Japanese in China, so I don't see any reason to cut China any slack on this issue.


John Wang...that sort of attitude works well when you are back in China, but you are not there anymore.

[YouKnowWho]

John Wang...that sort of attitude works well when you are back in China, but you are not there anymore.

When Japanese bombs killed your people, where you live won't change your attitude.

[pazman]

The problem with that attitude, John, is that in order for it to be consistent within the world, you are willing to take on the hate of Vietnamese, Mongolians, Tibetans, Koreans, Turks, etc etc etc...the groups that "your people" have savagely oppressed and disgraced in the past. You can see how futile that attitude becomes.

[bawang]

I always wonder at the level of intelligence of people who riot, destroy property, always blaming "the other", etc., for the sake of nationalistic or religious fervor. Such people are very easy to manipulate, like cattle. Would most of them even know or care about these islands if it wasn't pushed in the news?

If Chinese flags and businesses were being defaced in any country in the world, for any reason, the PRC government would be complaining and threatening over it.

the prc has a;ways redirected chinese peoples anger at itself to japan, using it as a scapegoat.

[RenDaHai]

Yeah, the Chinese really hate the Japanese.

The Japanese did some nasty things to the Chinese but the Chinese did worse to themselves and more recently.

Upper estimates of 10M Unnatural Chinese deaths caused by the Japanese. But upper estimates of 80M Unnatural Chinese deaths caused by the policies of MaoZiDong.

After hearing stories from the Japanese occupation while in China, I can fully understand why the Chinese hate the Japanese... Its rather logical. But I think a lot of those memories should have been overshadowed by the memories of the more recent and equally atrocious cultural revolution. I think the Chinese government kind of keeps this Japanese Hate going as a way of redirecting the anger the Chinese must feel for themselves.

When you turn on the TV in China there is always showing a program which is a period drama of WWII and the japanese being horrible to the Chinese. When all the Chinese grow up only seeing the Japanese this way it is easy to see how the Hate is cultivated.

[bawang]

When you turn on the TV in China there is always showing a program which is a period drama of WWII and the japanese being horrible to the Chinese. When all the Chinese grow up only seeing the Japanese this way it is easy to see how the Hate is cultivated.

the first thing the chinese see today with anger is not the evil japanese on tv, but the rich children of the communist party around them living in debauchery.

[ShaolinDan]

Yesterday there were government organized anti-Japanese demonstrations throughout China. Here are some photos from Kunming (The soldiers are riot prevention, many foreign businesses were also forced to close for the day--more riot prevention. Fortunately for me, the Chinese newspapers have not been mentioning that the U.S. is supporting Japan on this one.) :

[bawang]

i think prc is testing the waters to see how much they can excise their newfound international power.

[David Jamieson]

I personally am questioning the intellectual capacity and capability of both those countries leaders.

We are talking about a few uninhabited rocks sticking out of the ocean after all.
Resources speculated to be below can be shared.

seriously, what the hell is wrong with these guys?

Seems like it may be as bawang says, China trying to flex itself and focusing on it's hated rival to do so. It is very childish and because that childish vitriol has access to extreme weapon, I would say it is reckless as well.

[bawang]

I personally am questioning the intellectual capacity and capability of both those countries leaders.

We are talking about a few uninhabited rocks sticking out of the ocean after all.
Resources speculated to be below can be shared.

seriously, what the hell is wrong with these guys?

Seems like it may be as bawang says, China trying to flex itself and focusing on it's hated rival to do so. It is very childish and because that childish vitriol has access to extreme weapon, I would say it is reckless as well.

i think its a pretty safe way to test international attitude and reactions , since like you said, its just some rocks.

whats dangerous is trying to rouse the mob.

[David Jamieson]

i think its a pretty safe way to test international attitude and reactions , since like you said, its just some rocks.

whats dangerous is trying to rouse the mob.

Agreed. Political leaders aren't the brightest lot.
If they had read The life of Julius Caesar they would clearly see the error in arousing the mob.
The mob rules, not them. Not a king, not an emperor not a politburo leader.

Don't wake the mob. You will regret it every single time.

[SimonM]

The Chinese claim on the islands is incredibly weak.

The only support the Chinese media can find is the fact that Chinese sailors mapped it hundreds of years ago.

Japan claimed it during its annexation of Okinawa. In fact, there were no people living there or using it before the Japanese annexation. Of course, in those days, China claimed "sovereignty" over any tribute nation.

Prior to the 1800s the name of the island cluster in both China and Japan translated as "catch fish." (In fact it's still called that in China.)

Prior to the discovery of oil these islets were just a fishin' hole that couldn't really support anybody living there. And frankly the Chinese maps claimed that it was a chinese fishin' hole and, excepting one, the Japanese maps claimed it was a Japanese fishin' hole.

The Chinese maps are older which gives them a tenuously better claim. From my review of the literature I see no mention of the USA offering Diaoyu to China at the end of WWII. What I see is the US unilaterally making decisions on behalf of themselves, the UK and China over the terms of the Potsdam declaration. No surprise, the USA used Chinese internal conflict and British disinterest to control pretty much all the little rocks in the Pacific region that they took from Japan.

Doesn't mean they had a legal basis to do that though.

Again, ultimately, I think both claims are tenuous at best. The Chinese claim is "we had it first." The Japanese claim is "yeah but we took it from you fair and square in the 1800s by beating you in a war."

Neither is compelling evidence. Not every piece of land needs an owner. If both sides would just leave it alone things would be better.

[RickMatz]

The only sensible way to solve this is a game of go.