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Thread: Benefits of Horse Stance Training

  1. #46
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    IronFist:
    Quantify "basic leg strength." What is it?
    #1. Basic leg strength is just as I stated..... basic. Like I said if you want to do more or go beyond this... do squats or leg press etc....

    What? No it doesn't.
    #2. When you sit is a low horse stance you will feel your ligaments / tendons in your hips pull and stretch. Doh.... what? you never sat in a horse stance and felt your hips stretching?

    Rooting is nonsense. "Allowing blood and body fluids to sink?" They're only sinking because you're lowering yourself and they're physically getting lower as a result. In real life, when your blood and body fluids sink, it's a medical emergency and you have to go to the hospital.
    #3. I am truly sorry you do not understand gravity..... try this this to help explain: Raise your arms straight up above your head and point them to the sky. Hold them there for a minute or 2. Quickly lower them down and you will actually feel your blood flowing back down into your arms. This is because blood and body fluids can move thru your body because gravity forces it downward. Gravity plays a role in your blood / fluids and how they flow in your body. as you learn to relax (in your stance) blood vessels will relax and open up, allowing blood to flow where ever gravity will take it.

    Granted... aerteies are trying to carry expired blood back to the heart. You can still lower your center of gravity without bending your knees or lowering your body....by blood dropping making your center mass lower. Anyone can do this, there is no secret, just horse stance training.

    I suppose, but you never use those techniques in an actual fight so it really doesn't matter.
    #4. We had a discussion here before.... Horse stance is used and they even had a video clip of some mma guy hittin a horse and punching the opponent while in it, so don't gimmie that crap that it is not used in reality.

    Nonense. The only way you get stronger "at the expense of skill and technique" is if you stop practicing skill and technique.
    #5. If spend more time in the gym lifting than do in the kwoon practicing drills and sparring, then you are a meathead and you are trying to replace skill with strength.

    All supplemental training is good. However TCMA has reasons for Horse stance as stated in my earlier post. If you want to do other things like lifting weights.... just don't forsake your meat and potatoes like sparring / drills etc.

    ginosifu

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    Besides...it helped my skiing.
    After my wife took her 1st ski lesson, she still didn't know how to slow down and stop. I assume the parallel turning is not that easy for beginner. After I taught her WC YGKYM (snow plow), she had no problem on the green. If snow plow is the only skill that you have, you had better to make your horse stance strong.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    After my wife took her 1st ski lesson, she still didn't know how to slow down and stop. I assume the parallel turning is not that easy for beginner. After I taught her WC YGKYM (snow plow), she had no problem on the green. If snow plow is the only skill that you have, you had better to make your horse stance strong.
    Or learn to ski
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #49
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    Stance training was more helpful than any other exercise in opening the hips for working side splits. This for someone who started gongfu at 28 after years of running/weightlifting without any kind of flexibility training.

  5. #50
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    If you go to China 30 years ago, you may have problem to go to bathroom without strong horse stance. People who said that horse stance is not important, that person may never take a dump in the woods.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Or learn to ski
    The 1st time I went to ski was in Cooper Mountain, CO. Without any ski experience (I thought my TCMA experience should be enough), I immediately got on the triple black diamonds "Widowmaker" slop (more life insurance were ever collected on that trail than others). After I barely made down, I took my 1st ski lesson right way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THBh7KlmM48
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 09-26-2012 at 02:01 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  6. #51
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    Ironfist, your experience is your own.

    You are starting to do the brash chest pounding crap now, so, chill.
    You may very well like what you like, But I don't count you as qualified to speak in depth about what TCMA does or doesn't offer.

    your experience with it, in it is limited. You have obviously jumped ship and so, don't even bother learning it anymore it would seem, but you take time to make criticism of it's methods.

    That's cool. It's your stuff. Hang onto it. I don't share that view with you and find your view to only be an attempt at trying to diminish. And your post 4 did not scientifically explain anything. You seem to have cherry picked 1 line from the article I provided.

    Just odd man. Why do you hate TCMA so much anyway? We are likely to all go train some Horse stance today. You disapprove, oh well. lol
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    Fighting, wrestling etc...is conducted from a bent legged posture. So while you are fighting, you are 'holding that angle for a period of time'.
    and you never stand static in those stances, you move sideways, you raise and lower, which you are not doing in the horse stance so again, its not sports specific

  8. #53
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

    You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

    Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more.... do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.

    Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more.... do other stretches.

    Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

    Horse stance builds good mental focus... However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

    Hundreds of years ago while practicing.... there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

    Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

    This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

    Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

    ginosifu
    so at one point in your post you acknowledge weights are useful and ancient teachers didnt have access to them so had to use stances (the implication being if they did have weights they would have used them) then call those of us who are simply saying the above implicitly and not just hinting at it, that we are stupid meatheads (oh and thanks for that nice way of lumping those of us who have done both TCMA and modern weight training and studied both seriously in such a stupid group)
    And you are right they are supplemental exercises which should not take time away your main training: so if one method is superior, quicker and better at producing your desired end goal (getting stronger) why not switch to it?

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    so at one point in your post you acknowledge weights are useful and ancient teachers didnt have access to them so had to use stances (the implication being if they did have weights they would have used them) then call those of us who are simply saying the above implicitly and not just hinting at it, that we are stupid meatheads (oh and thanks for that nice way of lumping those of us who have done both TCMA and modern weight training and studied both seriously in such a stupid group)
    And you are right they are supplemental exercises which should not take time away your main training: so if one method is superior, quicker and better at producing your desired end goal (getting stronger) why not switch to it?
    Because clearly th horse stance gives you teh ultim@t3 d34dly pow3rz even though it's inferior to weight training.

  11. #56

    Here ya go...

    Horse stance = static exercise. squats=dynamic exercise . squat jump = ballistic exercise....or a leg press on a machine could also = ballistic

    You have to train all three to optimize your results. static, dynamic and ballistic exercises.

    Anyone that thinks there isnt any transferable skills acquired by doing horse stance or that there isn't anything to be gained by using it needs to get a clue. And if not, feel free to keep training like you are from the last century or so.

    It is part of the integrated training approach that everyone is using in the personal training/ health/ fitness fields .

    Its the reason why all these professional sport figures are getting so good. They have found that having a scientific understanding , rational and methods to train increases performance and minimizes injury.

    works along the lines of training smarter and not harder. you can only train so hard to get results , eventually control and injury become a factor...

  12. #57
    Man...the snarky in this forum is thick.


    So...to conclude:

    If you are too lazy to train and an MMA kid defeats you, then stances are worthless.

    Got it.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  13. #58
    Maybe if a CMA guy beats up Ironfist, he'll come back to us...


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Horse stance = static exercise. squats=dynamic exercise . squat jump = ballistic exercise....or a leg press on a machine could also = ballistic

    You have to train all three to optimize your results. static, dynamic and ballistic exercises.

    Anyone that thinks there isnt any transferable skills acquired by doing horse stance or that there isn't anything to be gained by using it needs to get a clue. And if not, feel free to keep training like you are from the last century or so.

    It is part of the integrated training approach that everyone is using in the personal training/ health/ fitness fields .

    Its the reason why all these professional sport figures are getting so good. They have found that having a scientific understanding , rational and methods to train increases performance and minimizes injury.

    works along the lines of training smarter and not harder. you can only train so hard to get results , eventually control and injury become a factor...
    You don't need a static hold unless you're very weak and even then it's only to build strength to get you to dynamic.

    Others have argued that there is a dynamic component to horse stance training and again the modern weight lifting beats it out.

    THAT is the current training methodology of PTs and pro fighters. You will never find a pro mma or muay Thai fighter doing static holds. It's squats, squats, and weighted squats.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    You don't need a static hold unless you're very weak and even then it's only to build strength to get you to dynamic.

    Others have argued that there is a dynamic component to horse stance training and again the modern weight lifting beats it out.

    THAT is the current training methodology of PTs and pro fighters. You will never find a pro mma or muay Thai fighter doing static holds. It's squats, squats, and weighted squats.
    Current and active PFT.... in all phases of training you can benefit from static exercises/ stretches.

    once again part of the modern view and methodology used by all current trainers in the field.

    Of course it is needed less as you progress, however it is still needed and benefited from.... you need all three to optimize results.

    if people aren't using it then they are missing out on a major training component in all phases of training.

    Never would?? huh! I think you would be surprised in the ways MMA and the pros are training now a days.


    Come to think of it, most of the UFC champs are all MMA guys with a BB/ solid foundation in traditional arts, many of them probably have done/ do a great deal of stance/ horse training. static, dynamic and ballistic.

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