Early Tanglangquan in Taiwan

[r.(shaolin)]

im sure you could come here and tell them that

" If you ask most mainland masters, they dont think much of kung fu in Taiwan or HK."

Frankly it is these "mainland master" which should go to Taiwan and HK tell them to their faces that they don't think much of the kung fu they practice.

rik zak
403 230 0357

[xiao yao]

yea, there is a lot of low quality kung fu in china, and my statement was just a general opinion that ive encountered; it doesnt reflect either my view or my shifus view.

theres no point getting ****y about it

[r.(shaolin)]

yea, there is a lot of low quality kung fu in china, and my statement was just a general opinion that ive encountered; it doesnt reflect either my view or my shifus view.

theres no point getting ****y about it

I agree there are great masters and in every country as well as less-than-great people in every country.

[wolfen]

I'm sure that's what it is. Students from Wu Tan, or learning from teachers certified by Wu Tan, were the only ones in Taiwan who did Mantis with Baji flavor.

I think the Wu Tang was set up somewhat as a CMA preservation society that brought together teachers of various lineages. South of Taipei the umbrella organization is known as the 'Guo Shu She' 國術社 but is connected under the Wu Tang in Taipei.
It also preserved traditional training methods such as 'mountain training' or various kinds of immersion training in physical body, culture and mind.

Liu Yun Qiao did not teach Liu He Tang Lang to these teachers and students as he deferred to an older brother.
Each teacher has had different lineages, I think most of the organizations/teachers there are very insular, they preserve their own traditions and don't mix with the outside.

This is the syllabus below for one org in Taipei. There is also Xing-Yi, Tong Bei and Miao Dao and other stuff taught by teachers in the society in other locations.

For the Island Guo Shu She - looks like a lot of internal arts (Mizong, Pigua, Baji, Chen Tai, Yang Tai, Xing Yi) - practiced with various Mantis and Longfist- seems bound to affect one another?

1. 奠基立功 北長拳 5. 剛柔虛實 太極拳
2. 飄遙仙蹤 迷蹤拳 6. 迅雷閃電 螳螂拳
3. 撼動乾坤 八極拳 7. 行雲流水 八卦拳
4. 翻江倒海 劈掛掌 8. 止戈為武 刀槍劍

The teachers recruit mostly from the secondary school institutions up so the syllabus of styles and form listings for them all can be pulled up from the appropriate websites nowadays (in Chinese).

There also is or was a chart listing on the net for the Guo Shu She for all the Island somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.

[RAF]

Just a note:

At the advanced level of the baji system taught by Liu Yun Qiao, there is an absence of stomping.

When I play liu he duan chui, there is no intentional injection of baji flavor or stomping utilized in the form. However, there is no way to erase any influence that the da qiang training may have on the shen fa/body structure and power. I also do not recall ever having a baji posture intentionally inserted into any of the praying mantis forms taught.

If one watches the clip below, you can get a pretty good idea of the praying mantis flavor of old Wu Tan in Taiwan with a contrast [at the end of the clip] with baji flavor. Most of the younger practitioners would be entering their prime with regard to baji so the comparison to their praying mantis is interesting. [the 3:55 mark would be the start of a demo of xiao baji, da baji and liu da kai--prior mantis also includes a demo of Liu He praying mantis]

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/mpg/oldTV.mp4

Generally speaking, there is a lot of variation among Wu Tan students/instructors which inevitably occurs when you get that many people training in a system.

[mooyingmantis]

Robert,
Great clip!

Master Yang was just discussing this TV clip at lunch today. What timing.

[RAF]

Spooky stuff!

I haven't talked to him since last Sunday

[RAF]

At the 2:44 mark of the clip I posted you get a mantis player [from Wu Tan--not Tony Yang] doing a version of Lan Jie and right after that clip you get Tony playing baji lian huan--it might just be me but I don't see any baji flavor in the first clip in contrast to the second clip.

Again, lots of variation in skills, levels, and flavors in the umbrella called Wu Tan and I believe that Wolfen is correct regarding the "mission" of the Wu Tan Developmental Center founded by Liu. I think it may have been part of a Guomindang Government project but not sure.

[wolfen]

Again, lots of variation in skills, levels, and flavors in the umbrella called Wu Tan and I believe that Wolfen is correct regarding the "mission" of the Wu Tan Developmental Center founded by Liu. I think it may have been part of a Guomindang Government project but not sure.

Yes, Liu Yun Qiao and his colleagues taught the Presidential Bodyguards and the Secret Service so they got Government support in setting up the Guo Shu She (國術社) for the national preservation of martial arts in Taiwan.
.
The Island is divided up into 7-9 districts with a family system traditional teacher for each one. They set up an office in the student Activities Buildings of the institutions of higher learning (Universities and Technical schools) . So it helps to have a permanent place (office) for organizational continuity. Each center has a coach/teacher and all coaches for a district are under a specific teacher The programs at the unis and tech schools are a basic four year introduction to both internal and external arts as well as preserving Miao Dao, a traditional Taiwanese Art. The students can continue on with their teachers in various ways post graduate, while in post-graduate programs or after military service and some become disciples or "real" students. The students identify by the generational family number at the year of joining. The conformity of the system in each wave joining at the same time make the numbering system convenient.

Chart listing on the net for the Guo Shu She of the Teachers and Schools

http://www.geocities.ws/Colosseum/Bl...2630/club2.htm

Another version:
http://www.wutan.tw/layer1/organize.htm#taiwan

The curriculums for those school programs can be easily found on the net by cross-indexing a search and more is on youtube now.

[LaterthanNever]

A student of Zhao Zhuxi-forget the name- studied under Zhao (Chu Chuck Kai) before he moved to Vietnam."

Perhaps you mean Master Hui Chiang who was a disciple of the late CCK. He told me that he and his family fled to Vietnam w/ the rise in Communism and taught TJ Mantis in Vietnam for many years before coming to the USA (He teaches in Avon, MA)