Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma

[Vajramusti]

in my experience, yjkym when used in training teaches the student to develop a strong root, as you cannot place one foot back to stabilize.
Rooting becomes, "internal."
No, not the tree-hugging,ch'i-blast, internal, ya knuckleheads,
But being in touch with the squeezing, contracting, spiraling, and alignments that goes on inside when trying to root while applying forward pressure, or receiving it.
An example would be during chi-sao,
or when you are working the mook yan jong, and apply the double palm strike, and rock the jong-without being moved backward.

Another use is when training live drills. You stand in yjkym to allow you the ability to go in whichever direction you need to to attack your opponent's attack, much the way you stand to receive a serve in tennis.
You can also say that when used in fighting, it does not give your opponent your blind side.

--------------------------

Much truth on ygkym.

Ignore Yoshiyahu...on all threads!!

[Ali. R]

The stronger ones root is, the more he or she could bring their system to life, and it’s the best way to develop sensitivity within ones upper extremities by having a strong connection to the floor. “Wing Chun’s Soft Approach” is based on a strong stance.

Let’s face it, the softer you are the better you can read ones intensions off a block or even from eye sensitivity, the stronger ones root is through relaxation will develop the ease of mental assuredness and confidents upon a stressful situation.

You can’t turn into a curve going a 100mph by being ridged and stiff, but if one relaxes he or she will develop enough eye sensitivity to gain field management to take that turn successfully (Tokyo Drift) and with a better time as well. This would not be accomplished unless the car itself was developed to do so.

Just as ‘Tai Chi’ stresses the ideal of a strong root to develop softness in ones upper extremities, our system has the same mental connection as “The Grand Ultimate Fist”, far as developing softness and sensitivity from a stance point of view.

And no, you don’t have to take ‘Tai Chi’ to relate to what I’m saying, but if you study or have studied ‘Tai Chi’; Wing Chun’s ‘soft approach’ could very well be something for you to look into, just my personal opinion. And I’m not being Hyper-individualistic or perpetuating any form of temerity, just sharing what I’ve been taught

Hope you enjoy,

http://detroitwingchun.com/kenart1.htm

Ali

[Yoshiyahu]

Excellent Post brother

The stronger ones root is, the more he or she could bring their system to life, and it’s the best way to develop sensitivity within ones upper extremities by having a strong connection to the floor. “Wing Chun’s Soft Approach” is based on a strong stance.

Let’s face it, the softer you are the better you can read ones intensions off a block or even from eye sensitivity, the stronger ones root is through relaxation will develop the ease of mental assuredness and confidents upon a stressful situation.

You can’t turn into a curve going a 100mph by being ridged and stiff, but if one relaxes he or she will develop enough eye sensitivity to gain field management to take that turn successfully (Tokyo Drift) and with a better time as well. This would not be accomplished unless the car itself was developed to do so.

Just as ‘Tai Chi’ stresses the ideal of a strong root to develop softness in ones upper extremities, our system has the same mental connection as “The Grand Ultimate Fist”, far as developing softness and sensitivity from a stance point of view.

And no, you don’t have to take ‘Tai Chi’ to relate to what I’m saying, but if you study or have studied ‘Tai Chi’; Wing Chun’s ‘soft approach’ could very well be something for you to look into, just my personal opinion. And I’m not being Hyper-individualistic or perpetuating any form of temerity, just sharing what I’ve been taught

Hope you enjoy,

http://detroitwingchun.com/kenart1.htm

Ali

[Ali. R]

Excellent Post brother

Thank you very much dear brother.

‘YJKYM’ is the nexus/precursor of all the applications within the wing chun system, especially when dealing with defense and without falling into the tedious forms of prolix, I’ll say this.

Anyone could throw a good punch, but can one stop a strike when it really, really counts. Master your stance and it will be shown.

[SAAMAG]

I would love to see someone successfully fight in YGKYM. It's a training stance, you don't fight in it. If you do, you're going to get hit...a lot...by anyone trained properly who fights frequently.

Having the knees inward is good for straight punching, but you should be TRANSITIONING to that inward-knee position and then back out when you no longer need it.

[Ali. R]

Once one develops his/her stance, within the form of relaxation, balance and while mastering ones center of gravity, he -or-she will move as gracefully as walking.

But if one doesn’t master the concepts in which I’ve just stated above, they would be like a little child learning to ride a bike for the first time; stiff, awkward, unsure and without confidents.

But when the balance and center of gravity is mastered, relaxation/mental calmness will come into light, bringing confidents and grace upon pressure. Just as a child that waves at his/her father; when riding their bikes down the street.

[Yoshiyahu]

I understand what your saying..I want to elaborate on transtioning...i believe this key...it is possible to fight In YGKYM, Its also possible to fight in Ding Ma,Toh Ma, Cho Mah, Biu Ma, Huen Ma, and even hanging horse. But its all about transition. Im not gonna hold my Ding Ma or side horse stance while you circle around me. No im utilize footwork to change my angle, direction, posistion an centerline. Its possible to utilize Horse stance and Arrow Stance, and cat stance in a fight if your hung ga. But you dont stay in those posistions. Each posture or stance or horse has a various purpose...Siu Lien Tao teaches you the purpose and theories behind the YGKYM an when to utilize it an what its weaknesses are...try sparring in YGKYM only...you will quickly find its limitations that way...

Chum Kiu develops on the YGKYM and also adds Cho Ma, Toh Ma and Ding Ma...From there you begin to see the theories and applications and limitations behind those three horses or footwork.

Try sparring in just Ding Ma with out turning or switiching sides, Then you will discover the limitation, Try only using Cho Ma or Toh Ma when you spar then you will see the limitations.

All footwork should be use fluently and compeletely. To think for a second your gonna just stand there in one posisition an fight is ridculous...drill yes. But not actually fight a moving, charging, an resisting opponent!

I would love to see someone successfully fight in YGKYM. It's a training stance, you don't fight in it. If you do, you're going to get hit...a lot...by anyone trained properly who fights frequently.

Having the knees inward is good for straight punching, but you should be TRANSITIONING to that inward-knee position and then back out when you no longer need it.

[imperialtaichi]

Kim Yeung, Gripping Yang, is the most fundamental power generation method.

[imperialtaichi]

Top level Tai Chi there is no root (as such). No legs below the knees. If there is a root, it can be broken. Not a Tai Chi forum so I won't rant on.

[Ali. R]

It's true, that there’s no root in ‘Tai Chi’ per say, but technically in practice there’s a root within transition to transition while in application in order to uproot or dissolve your opponent’s intentions.

But, what you said has a lot of truth to it, in theory; usually within the follow through of an application itself, making room for fluidity before and after one enter into the next transition/application.

Very strong principals for fighting systems that promotes softness within the upper extremities and fluidity within the lower extremities. What good is a stance, if one can’t move their feet while sitting in it (moving stance)?

Take Care,

Ali

[Wayfaring]

Good stuff imperialtaichi and Ali.

[Yoshiyahu]

No root, or Root...There are different ways to generate power With your wing chun...root or sinking force usually occurs when you are still...also uplifting and rising force may occur when you are stationary...But going from mobile to stationary are transitional periods. I would never fight from a stationary posistion only. Nor would i only be mobile. I will mix it up...

When in motion advancing, flanking and even retreating there are difference forces one can utilize to their advantage..advancing accompanied by forward energy is benefical. Retreating or side stepping with yielding energy is beneficial. There are exceptions to the rule...but certain motions give you more bang for your buck...

when you are in motion you utilize momentum and structure to carry your force along...in other words your entire body frame converges on your target into your punch allowing you use a different kind of force other than root. When in motion you have no root but you may still have your centre...

[wingchunIan]

While I was taught Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah as:

二 = Yi, Two
字 = Ji, Word
鉗 = Kim, Clamp/Grip
羊 = Yeung, Goat
馬 = Mah, Horse (stance)

from my Moy Yat Ving Tsun Kuen background, this is not the translation I have learned from my education in Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen. As LoneTiger108 pointed out the alternative translation, we also point to this translation:

二 = Yi, Two
字 = Ji, Word
鉗 = Kim, Clamp/Grip
陽 = Yeung/Yang
馬 = Horse (Stance)

In this instance, the pronunciation of Goat and “Yang” are very similar and be easily confused as “Yeung”. For one, the Yin-Yang theory is also referred to as Yim-Yeung. 羊 and 陽 sound very similar but a two totally different words.

Yeung in the “alternative” character (陽)has a few meanings: [1] positive (electricity) [2] male; masculine [3] the sun; sunlight; solar.
While I think most people would chalk this up to just a difference in words, I am more inclined to ask “why”.

To play a bit of devil’s advocate (no offense intended to anyone) and more to the point of the Wing Chun art supposedly being focused away from animal-style based kung fu mechanics, I find it contradictory for the “mother stance” of Wing Chun to be based on the notion of holding down sheep/goats with your knees. Why? What does that have to do with combat? Is Wing Chun based on Snake, Crane, and Goats? Wing Chun is first and foremost a human-structured based system which sets it apart from using the more “traditional” Shaolin animal kung fu mechanics.

Let’s then ask ourselves what exactly does holding down sheep/goats have with the art of Wing Chun? Do we hold such reverence for the farmers and countryside people who tended to livestock as to use that as a base for the entire art? How many of you practice your Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah training over a goat?

I also heard that another explanation was that on the Red Boats this stance was used to steady oneself for training. If so, once again we have an occurrence of the stance being driven by environmental circumstances. How many of you have successfully held your Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah AND do Wing Chun on a moving boat? I’ve tried this a few times at 25 knots (about 29 mph) and 40 knots (about 46 mph) on smooth and rough waters. I can tell you it doesn’t work and is completely impractical to use for that environment.

From what I gather on the Yeung/Yang version (陽), this use must be in reference to the Yin-Yang/Yim-Yeung Theory of balance and harmony. In Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen, the Heaven Human Earth concept is a central theme of the science. The Yin-Yang symbol is most illustratively presented at the base of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun logo designated as the Earth element. This can be emblematic to the reasoning that at the foundation of all things, balance and harmony must be established first before engaging external forces. Hence why in Siu Nim Tao we learn to be still first, so that as we develop the ability to influence other forces through our Pak, Taan, Bong, etc… we discover our greatest strength is in our ability to hold our ground. Later when we move our horse to advance or adjust, it is done so with the essence of the Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah intact rather than left behind. This explanation holds more substance as it resonates with the scientific basis of the Wing Chun art, for me, than the alternative.

This is actually one of the main things that's wrong with a lot of what is said on this forum in my ever so humble opinion. People seeking hidden meanings in the names of techniques / shapes and basing their knowledge of how something should be used on the label ascribed to it rather than a genuine transmission of knowledge. Ip man himself was of the opinion that the names of the techniques were irrelevant, he changed many of them to be less flowery and mystical using more simple descriptive terms. Many of the shapes were named because of what they look like, often by people not even training. YGKYM was so named at some point in the past because the positions of the toes and heels resemble the character 2 in caligraphy and the position of the knees looks similar to the position that someone would adopt to shear a goat / sheep or other animal

[wingchunIan]

I understand what your saying..I want to elaborate on transtioning...i believe this key...it is possible to fight In YGKYM

good luck with that. IMHO YGKYM has only one purpose and that is as a training stance. It trains the leg muscles and tendons, trains one to sink their centre of gravity, to unify the upper and lower body, to turn the knees in and teaches the correct spacing between the feet.

[JPinAZ]

This is actually one of the main things that's wrong with a lot of what is said on this forum in my ever so humble opinion. People seeking hidden meanings in the names of techniques / shapes and basing their knowledge of how something should be used on the label ascribed to it rather than a genuine transmission of knowledge. Ip man himself was of the opinion that the names of the techniques were irrelevant, he changed many of them to be less flowery and mystical using more simple descriptive terms. Many of the shapes were named because of what they look like, often by people not even training. YGKYM was so named at some point in the past because the positions of the toes and heels resemble the character 2 in caligraphy and the position of the knees looks similar to the position that someone would adopt to shear a goat / sheep or other animal

I think Savi's write-up was great and very informative. What I find wrong (to use your word) with what you said is implying YGKYM is simply a technique described how one's toes/knees point. IMO, this is only looking at the surface level/shape and not looking at YGKYM as a concept/technology based on principle (as Savi's post does)

BTW, not all WCK comes from Ip Man