Fak Sao ??

[Bacon]

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????Not just the Ho Kam Ming line (including Fong sifu and Lui Ming Fai) see Wong shon Long's biu jee-
note the fak sao after the elbows and the gan jum sections:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WOEnxFyGA

Considering how much Leung's wing chun seems to deviate from others in the Ip Man line I'd bet he learned that somewhere other than Ip Man.

[Vajramusti]

Considering how much Leung's wing chun seems to deviate from others in the Ip Man line I'd bet he learned that somewhere other than Ip Man.

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Are you talking about WSL? If so I don't know what you are talking about when you say "deviate".
I was focusing on fak sao because Phil brought up the term.

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzfTqU_bIZg

In the video above you will see a decent version of the biu jee that I do.
The fak sao section is after the flying elbows and the gan jam sections.
I don't mind seeing a fak sao section in the biu jee from you, your sihing, sifu or sigung
if you can give a link. A sense of the visible motion buy whatever name would aid in discussion.

Comparing perceptions, discussing them and even having different opinions is not necessarily mockery and I don't think that there has been mockery.

You see this is what winds me up about you guys! People here who have read your posts over time will know what I'm saying. You put out slight demeaning comments then try to track back and be a gentleman, but you don't fool me sir!

Consider this:
The form in your clip is a representation of a form that was considered the highest level of training in Wing Chun before Ip Man set up life in HK. It was refined during that time to variations we can all see today for free and without ever learning from a Wing Chun Sifu!

Do you really think THAT is a good example of Biu Jee???

[LoneTiger108]

Do you really think THAT is a good example of Biu Jee???

Man... I actually just watched the clip all the way through and to be honest with you it was simply painful for me AND that was an 'advanced' version???

Sorry but I can't share my own version, my Sifu will never show his version and my Sigung only recorded his version 'as ordered' by Ip Man himself so it's not exactly what he learnt from him privately.

By the way, all our 'versions' are advanced

[Happy Tiger]

Fak sau, to me, suggests the spirit of the tool fut sau in application. Lighter, ginger version with a slight upturned (Diagonal) tangent. Well plased in the biu jee form. The Lee Shing biu jee I saw on you tube W\ footwork seemed 'whiskey and broomy to me...abiding the analogy.
P.S. Around here, a day without condescending tone is like a day without sunshine! I'm developing a thicker skin to it these days and catch myself sometimes doing it too. It feels good to feel clever and superior.

[LoneTiger108]

Fak sau, to me, suggests the spirit of the tool fut sau in application. Lighter, ginger version with a slight upturned (Diagonal) tangent. Well plased in the biu jee form. The Lee Shing biu jee I saw on you tube W\ footwork seemed 'whiskey and broomy to me...abiding the analogy.

This is the only clip of my Sigung doing Biu Jee, and it's the only time he ever allowed it to be recorded. Like I said before, this is also the version Ip Man wanted him to promote too

http://youtu.be/3dD6_7mzAQs?t=1m53s

Is this the one you mean??

Or this clip from one of my kung fu uncles students?

http://youtu.be/0AD6tcLWYEQ?t=3m26s

[Happy Tiger]

Yes, second one.

[Ali. R]

Considering how much Leung's wing chun seems to deviate from others in the Ip Man line I'd bet he learned that somewhere other than Ip Man.

This is why it’s so hard for someone to say, “I come from the original/legitimate line of Yip Man” without confusion, and at the same time debilitating other families based on where someone’s name was written with such a statement.

Because it’s a high percentage of the Hong Kong families that don’t play wing chun like ‘Yip Man’, and showing atomistic individualism from making such a statement gets those to gravitate to one's wing chun family based on words rather than ability.

If its water -or- ice, it’s still of the same manifestation, H2O; but with its own personality and identity. This is why your Sifu’s wing chun could never be yours. You must have your own identity to completely identify yourself within your wing chun system.

I’m not saying deviation; but to only express yourself just as ‘Yip Man’s’ first five students did. There is no wrong way or right way to do this if the concepts and principles are mastered; if so, none of ‘Yip Man’s’ students would be consider a part of his family. Develop the system in which you train in and then come into your own, to be great.

Ali

[Happy Tiger]

Wing Chun tools fall into degrees. Tools with handles like Tan, Bong, Fook' Transition\action tools Huen, running hand, and such, and interpretative live descriptive tools fak sau tok sau ans such

[Phil Redmond]

Do I detect a bit of 'oldboy' ganging up here gents?!

Firstly, I can assure you my Sigung knew Biu Jee. I only mentioned the SLT because that's very common knowledge, Biu Jee isn't.

Secondly, yes we have a 掃 /brushing/whipping palm but I personally do not use the 'whisking' palm terms as I think it's innaccurate and there are far too many innaccurate ideas out there already.

And finally, as both of you are seniors in the Wing Chun world (or at least in this fantastical forum anyway lol!) don't you think you should be leading by example rather than attempting to make a mockery of, not only one, but quite a few of my posts?!

If you're ego can handle it, you can always chat directly with my own Sifu and ask any questions you like. He has 47 years experience in Wing Chun Phil, if that makes you feel any better? And both of your Sifus know who he is and if they don't then you know absolutely nothing about my Sigung or what he learnt from Ip Man either!

The mockery started with the following remark you made.
"Just my opinion, but whisking hand sounds like you are making cakes, and this is not what I do "
All I did was ask for the Chinese character.

[Phil Redmond]

I don't know what you're terming as fak sau but there's no fak sau in biu jee as taught by Ip Man.

http://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=2gls02U_t2Y

To say that you know everything Yip Man taught is...? I can't find the words.

[Phil Redmond]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1189535]

And finally, as both of you are seniors in the Wing Chun world (or at least in this fantastical forum anyway lol!) don't you think you should be leading by example rather than attempting to make a mockery of, not only one, but quite a few of my posts?!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzfTqU_bIZg

In the video above you will see a decent version of the biu jee that I do.
The fak sao section is after the flying elbows and the gan jam sections.
I don't mind seeing a fak sao section in the biu jee from you, your sihing, sifu or sigung
if you can give a link. A sense of the visible motion buy whatever name would aid in discussion.

Comparing perceptions, discussing them and even having different opinions is not necessarily mockery and I don't think that there has been mockery.

Fak Sau at 1:10 in the clip. He's got good form too.

[LoneTiger108]

Fak Sau at 1:10 in the clip. He's got good form too.

Now that all depends on what you think 'good form' is... content rich doesn't always qualify as 'good' when demonstrated with such basic mentality.

Please, let's see some full speed, accuracy and power to our final form before I lose the will to live...

[GlennR]

Please, let's see some full speed, accuracy and power to our final form before I lose the will to live...

We can only hope!

[LoneTiger108]

We can only hope!

I have 'walkthrough' material of my own that is okay for students who are just starting the forms, but let's be real here people! If you are still moving like that 20-30 years down the line and have never pushed your own limits then you gotta question what it is you are actually doing imho.

There's a clue in the old saying that 'Biu Jee is never seen' but you lot can try and figure that out for yourselves