Fak Sao ??

[Yoshiyahu]

Not sure what your point is behind this video? Can you please tell us your idea of it's relevance?

IMO, while the clip has 'fak sau' in the title, I didn't see what I would call a fak sau at all. Besides all the bad facing, poor structure and 'grabbing', in the beginning of the clip I did see something more akin to saat geng sau being used.

Can you please post a clip of what you think is good FAK SaU..


The clip i posted was basically showing whisking hand as a offensive technique...

[Happy Tiger]

Hi Phil, yeah get your point and for my part not trying to spread dogma or division, I actually agree with the 'we are all one family' type of thinking.

Its just how I remember being taught and no, didn't here it from WSL but I presume my Sifu would have as was a WSL student.

Any how the semantics aside I'm more interested in the usage, like I said was taught to me as a recovery technique from a side or rear attack - how do you teach it if I may ask?

Dave

I'M from WSL ( sifu Li Man Kit). It was taught to me as fak sau. As I know it , favoured as an off line collecting tool, if that makes any sense.

[JPinAZ]

Can you please post a clip of what you think is good FAK SaU..

I don't know any showing fak sau in application. Not saying there aren't any, but I just don't have time to go looking for one (nor care enough really).

But, I have already shared a clip showing the 3 different fak saus HFY has in it's SNT earlier in this thread (post #36 if you want to see what I'm talking about). If you have any questions bout them, let me know.

The clip i posted was basically showing whisking hand as a offensive technique...

Again, I'd say there are no fak saus in that clip, but that's a dead horse I don't feel like beating any more. You can call it fak sau or anything else if you want though, no biggy to me

[JPinAZ]

I'M from WSL ( sifu Li Man Lit). It was taught to me as fak sau. As I know it , favoured as an off line collecting tool, if that makes any sense.

makes perfect sense to me!

[Ozzy Dave]

Man sao to me is a function while several different motions as applications can serve that function.

Agreed, good point, as you say wu sao is often used in this way.

Per my long standing perspective, I don't speak for Fong sifu or his other students.But I try to understand and stay true to concepts and not embarrass my family.. In the details, individuals can use the same concepts and principles but be varied in their applications depending
on various factors including skills, alertness/awareness, timing etc. Hence the distinction between development and application. At the developmental level the fak sao should be done properly as in the biu jee form.( in my learning, practice and teaching). Then with san sik free hand drills solo and also with partner one develops application- further enhanced via chi sao in all it's variations.

Understand, thanks.

Yes, fak sao can be used against a close quarters attack from the back or side continuing into unbalancing the opponent for a throw or a strike using huen ma.For development the elbow is not finished in a bent position but in application it is- for energy conservation and minimizing chances of the elbow being broken or controlled. With chum kiu feet motions, fak sao can also (with development of skills) be used frontally against several different kinds of strikes, including some CLF types or overhand boxing strike or used with biu ma to control low incoming attacks.

Thanks, I like that explaination especially the point about the bent elbow.

I think that we can listen to what others do and not sink to name calling pr incivility in discussion- so far so good on this part of the thread with Phil and Ozzy etc.

Agreed, I'm happy to defer to the wisdom of the board which if used in an open spirit is a great resource. I've learn't something through the consensus which is great, cheers.

Looking at the kiut and the functions, it's hard for me to understand how anyone would feel these terms fak sau and man sau are interchangable. I fully repsect Ozzy Dave saying that is how he was taught/what he was told and mean no slight toward him, but in WCK, I was always taught to look to the concepts/principles of the system for my answers more-so than to blindly go by 'what sifu said'.

No slight taken mate, as I said previously the action is more important than the name which would seem to be the same across the families and for my part what you say makes sence too.

I'M from WSL ( sifu Li Man Lit). It was taught to me as fak sau. As I know it , favoured as an off line collecting tool, if that makes any sense.

Thanks, good feedback as I said happy to go along with the wisdom of the board.

Dave

[Phil Redmond]

I'M from WSL ( sifu Li Man Lit). It was taught to me as fak sau. As I know it , favoured as an off line collecting tool, if that makes any sense.

That's how I learned it as well. We Wing Chun people are a lot closer than some of us might think.

[Happy Tiger]

That's how I learned it as well. We Wing Chun people are a lot closer than some of us might think.

I feel that way too

[Bacon]

That's how I learned it as well. We Wing Chun people are a lot closer than some of us might think.

Wait are you saying you learned man sau is a fak sau? Like the two motions are named as the same one?

[Happy Tiger]

Wait are you saying you learned man sau is a fak sau? Like the two motions are named as the same one?

? I think he's referring to the common application of fak sau being more or less universal in VT.

[Bacon]

? I think he's referring to the common application of fak sau being more or less universal in VT.

I wouldn't term it as universal. A good analogy would be arm triangle chokes. People might have little tricks they find make it work better have a new way of doing it or slipping in easier or whatever but it's still a choke.

[Happy Tiger]

I wouldn't term it as universal. A good analogy would be arm triangle chokes. People might have little tricks they find make it work better have a new way of doing it or slipping in easier or whatever but it's still a choke.

Fair enough, that's why I said 'more or less'. One of the coolest things about VT is it's interpretative nature. I must admit though, to me, overlapping fak and mun sau seems more a stretch than say gahn sau and jahm sau.

[Phil Redmond]

Wait are you saying you learned man sau is a fak sau? Like the two motions are named as the same one?

Man is asking. Fak is whisking. How can they be the same thing?

[Bacon]

Man is asking. Fak is whisking. How can they be the same thing?

They can't which is the point I was making. I just misunderstood what you were saying

[wingchunIan]

Man is asking. Fak is whisking. How can they be the same thing?

I'm not going to comment on the form as to each their own. In my own lineage we practice the form with mun sao and the angle and energy are very different to the fak sao found in siu With regard to Fak sao and Man / mun sao being the same thing, you only have to look at your own sentence to see that it is infinitely possible. Man / mun sao is a concept, you are asking with your technique looking for an answer, a response, a hole to drive through or a bridge to work from etc etc. It can be applied to any technique be it a punch, palm, jum, fak or any other