Foward Energy - Biu Ma

[Bacon]

Maybe you should have quoted my entire post, because I also said "but I do feel his size helps once he plows fwd after he owns the line"

I was trying to make the distinction that I believe Shannon Moore has skill on TOP OF his size. Basically I don't believe he's good because of size alone. A lot of big, out of shape guys are worse because of it. While it surely helps in some cases, I don't believe size trumps skill as you are saying above.

I just wanted to deal with that bit on its own.. Not to misquote.

And size doesn't trump skill but you must have significantly more skill to make up for the size advantage. Once you get to a certain size and weight difference though no amount of skill is really going to save you. As the old saying goes, "God made men. Smith and Wesson made them equal."

I don't care how good Demetrius Johnson gets there's no way he could ever beat Brock Lesnar even if Lesnar wasn't a great wrestler.

[imperialtaichi]

I do like the idea of forcing someone back, because if the opponent cannot balance, he cannot generate power in his strike either. You don't always have to strike the opponent straight away, you can do it when he is down or forced into a wall/table/sharp object.

HOWEVER, these are NOT good clips; if the opponent is half decent in his kicking, striking and moving, you are not going to maintain you power when you crash into his weapons. There's more to forcing the opponent back then crashing into him in a straight line.

Btw, welcome to the forum Mr. Chan.

[anerlich]

I don't know why people post clips like this. I remember the huge hoo-ha with the "Gary Lam incident" which proved nothing other than that everyone involved was an idiot.

I've heard good things about Shannon Moore, but jeez, carrying that amount of weight just CANNOT be healthy.

"to even suggest that you have to be 'healthy' to do Martial Arts is almost taking away the original concept of Wing Chun"

I don't know for sure what the original concept of WC was (you probably don't either), but I don't think it had a lot to do with morbid obesity. I do think a Sifu has to lead by example. Mr Moore may have a condition that doesn't give him the choice, so I'll give him the benefit.

[duende]

To be that fat and to utilize footwork that bad... This guy's a Sifu? By who's standards?

He just uses his gut to occupy space and press forward. The opponents can't reach him without crosses a bridge of fat. He then leans over his own fat to fall into his opponent while striking.

One fast kick in the knee and then get out of the way.

What an embarrassment to martial science.

[Yoshiyahu]

Dude your funnny AS hell...I literally LOL at work when i read this...wow..man...i cant believe you stated that...just pure comedy!

To be that fat and to utilize footwork that bad... This guy's a Sifu? By who's standards?

He just uses his gut to occupy space and press forward. The opponents can't reach him without crosses a bridge of fat. He then leans over his own fat to fall into his opponent while striking.

One fast kick in the knee and then get out of the way.

What an embarrassment to martial science.

[anerlich]

It was designed for the average man and woman,

There's nothing average about that level of overweight.

This is Wing Chun, not Sumo.

And I know the difference between just learning as a hobby and throwing yourself deeply into the art itself for your life. Going under the banner of a traditional Sifu is not an easy task, let alone moving on from that and developing as an individual.

What's that got to do with the subject of the thread or the flow of the discussion?

And why is that whenever people see a fat person, they give him the benefit of the doubt and think he may have some medical condition?

Just trying to be nice, I guess. I too have some trouble grasping how someone can put in years or decades of training at the intensity necessary to get good enough to call oneself a Sifu and still stay enormous, unless there's something else going on.

And, yeah, Samo was never THAT big.

[LoneTiger108]

I don't know for sure what the original concept of WC was (you probably don't either), but I don't think it had a lot to do with morbid obesity.

Listen, all I am saying is that you don't have to be healthy to be good at Wing Chun, or to start learning it. It was designed for the average man and woman, according to my learning. It wasn't intended to be an athletic endeavor, but these ideas naturally intersect with the systems development through the men who have had influence on it.

And I know the difference between just learning as a hobby and throwing yourself deeply into the art itself for your life. Going under the banner of a traditional Sifu is not an easy task, let alone moving on from that and developing as an individual.

What I see today tends to be people that have picked up tricks from multi-seminars and then teaching it as they please, and that will result in a very basic shadow of what we know Wing Chun to be. Yes, that will work against a hobby dude, just as the clips show, but don't expect to get anywhere against someone that has taken their learning further than a once a week pass time.

[hulkout]

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1189992]Listen, all I am saying is that you don't have to be healthy to be good at Wing Chun, or to start learning it. It was designed for the average man and woman, according to my learning. It wasn't intended to be an athletic endeavor, but these ideas naturally intersect with the systems development through the men who have had influence on it.

I'm not saying that you have to be a world class triathlete or olympic lifter, but discipline goes hand in hand with real martial arts mastery. If you have the title of sifu, you have a responsibility to demonstrate that discilpine to your students. It's kind of hard to look at someone as disciplined when he's obviously eaten far more than his share of KFC and Krispy Kreme donuts and has a gut so big he can't see his own *****. Wing Chun was designed for the average person without huge size or strength, but conditioning has always been a big part of Wing Chun training. You may not need to be super strong, but cardiovascular conditioning, balance, and other attributes built up through conditioning is vital for all martial arts. These things are not possible with someone who's morbidly obese and all other things being equal, his fighting ability will be worse than someone who is conditioned.

And why is that whenever people see a fat person, they give him the benefit of the doubt and think he may have some medical condition? Almost half the population in the US is fat, more in some states. I suppose the entire genetic code has been rewritten in the past 30 years or could it be that people are just eating too much crap?

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TrMahkuvo

Now I'm not saying that everyone who is obese needs to be like Sammo, but he is a great example of going against stereotypical thinking imho. And he is very proud of his Wing Chun learning too

[hulkout]

Hey, I love Sammo too. His films are great and the fact that he's fat and can move like he does makes him more entertaining. But the fact remains that he would be better if he wasn't fat. And don't forget that he had a heart attack a few years ago. Practicing martial arts and not giving a crap about your health doesn't really go together. The fact that you can do Wing Chun while being in bad shape doesn't make it ideal. You can also a drive a rusted out 86 Ford Taurus. It'll get you around but nowhere near as good.