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Thread: Foward Energy - Biu Ma

  1. #1
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    Foward Energy - Biu Ma

    I wanted to share a couple of videos which i thought made good use of the Biu Ma and Toh Ma footwork and forward energy!

    Tell me what you think?


    Wing Chun Punch using stiff arm with whole body structure

    THE ABOVE VIDEO HE BASICALLY TOH MA OR BIU MA WITH SOLID PUNCHES HE USES TO UPROOT AND DESTROY HIS OPPONENTS STRUCTURE.


    Continous Punching with Toh Ma to jam opponents space and keep the gap closed
    The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.

    "Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."

    "Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."

    "Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"

  2. #2
    I think in the first video it didn't really matter because the guy was wearing jeans and so couldn't pull of any ranged kicks at height and the other guy was twice his weight.

    The second video the guy got all slap happy and pressured him back into the mirror and broke it but there wasn't a single good solid strike in there.

  3. #3
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    I don't know anything about Shannon Moore's Wing Chun skills and background, but I do know that he's a huge fat slob! I mean seriously, what the hell? Get yourself in some kind of half decent shape. And don't tell me that his skill or his sensitivity or whatever is more important. All other things being equal, a better conditioned person will always be a better fighter. Not to mention healthier with reduced risk of diabetes, heart disease, joint problems, and injuries. Honestly, what is it with fat slob masters? There's tons of them.

  4. #4
    That first video only illustrates what happens when a freight train collides with a Kia. Not to mention that neither one of them showed any real skill in fighting to be honest. It was just mess. And if that karate guy was a black belt....then I'm Jackie Chan.

    The second video wasn't really proof of anything. There was no real contact. Throwing high volume punches that do no damage only makes one guy tired and one guy annoyed. Oh...and it breaks furniture.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  5. #5
    pmsl
    there was no wing chun in the first clip at all from either party and if the guy in the jeans had had any lateral movement the big fella would have been chewing wall.
    The second clip only proves the point that putting on a pair of shorts does not make you a thai boxer any more than buying a gi makes you a karate master. If the guy had been half competent at MT he would have put in a teep to maintain the distance, had some oomph in his hands and as soon as the range closed would have looked to clinch and / or throw knees.
    We all get annoyed when **** poor muppets are passed off as Wing Chun fighters so why do the same with other arts......
    A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    I wanted to share a couple of videos which i thought made good use of the Biu Ma and Toh Ma footwork and forward energy!

    Tell me what you think?


    Wing Chun Punch using stiff arm with whole body structure

    THE ABOVE VIDEO HE BASICALLY TOH MA OR BIU MA WITH SOLID PUNCHES HE USES TO UPROOT AND DESTROY HIS OPPONENTS STRUCTURE.


    Continous Punching with Toh Ma to jam opponents space and keep the gap closed
    I find it interesting that these sorts of videos have sprung up after the Ip Man movies in an attempt to show how great Wing Chun is against other styles! And to be fair, at least in these two clips they show how easy it is to beat someone who is sh!t at Martial Arts.

    But it's boring to watch imho.

    And I have nothing against guys being over weight and to even suggest that you have to be 'healthy' to do Martial Arts is almost taking away the original concept of Wing Chun. We are a system for 'everybody'. We are all-inclusive so get off your high horse and give credit where it is due... because from what I saw Sifu Moore owned the guy, and probably taught him a sweet lesson in Martial Conduct!!

    If you attend someones seminar and mouth off, be prepared to put your fists up!!

    As for 'Karate' man or whatever, I would have done better than that when I was 12
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    If you attend someones seminar and mouth off, be prepared to put your fists up!!

    As for 'Karate' man or whatever, I would have done better than that when I was 12
    Agreed and agreed.
    I don't think Sifu Moore's weight matters when talking about his skill. He moves very quick for his size and seems to have very decent skill from seeing his other clips (but I do feel his size helps once he plows fwd after he owns the line).
    That 'karate man' didn't look to have any skill at all and should be embarrassed he steped up at the seminar/workshop.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    I think in the first video it didn't really matter because the guy was wearing jeans and so couldn't pull of any ranged kicks at height and the other guy was twice his weight.
    It looked like a local businessman type was challenging Moore's teachings at one of his seminars or something. The question had something to do with how to deal with long-range kicks, then Moore just blasted thru some weak sauce kick attempts on both engagements and pursued on the centerline.

    The jeans guy / businessman type was more arguing theory as opposed to being a skilled fighter to be able to pull off what he was talking about.

    I don't like the bull rush thru center tactics shown. It is effective against lower level guys, but once you get someone trained they will angle step off instead of going straight back and probably land the lead hand hook or a cross on the other side. You have to pursue and advance in a balanced fashion, not getting all out over your lead foot pursuing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Agreed and agreed.
    I don't think Sifu Moore's weight matters when talking about his skill.
    Not if it was against someone his own weight. If you fight someone 100 lbs heavier than you it really doesn't matter so much about their skill because they can just walk through you. Now there are exceptions but there is a reason combat sports use weight classes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Not if it was against someone his own weight. If you fight someone 100 lbs heavier than you it really doesn't matter so much about their skill because they can just walk through you. Now there are exceptions but there is a reason combat sports use weight classes.
    Maybe you should have quoted my entire post, because I also said "but I do feel his size helps once he plows fwd after he owns the line"

    I was trying to make the distinction that I believe Shannon Moore has skill on TOP OF his size. Basically I don't believe he's good because of size alone. A lot of big, out of shape guys are worse because of it. While it surely helps in some cases, I don't believe size trumps skill as you are saying above.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Maybe you should have quoted my entire post, because I also said "but I do feel his size helps once he plows fwd after he owns the line"

    I was trying to make the distinction that I believe Shannon Moore has skill on TOP OF his size. Basically I don't believe he's good because of size alone. A lot of big, out of shape guys are worse because of it. While it surely helps in some cases, I don't believe size trumps skill as you are saying above.
    I just wanted to deal with that bit on its own.. Not to misquote.

    And size doesn't trump skill but you must have significantly more skill to make up for the size advantage. Once you get to a certain size and weight difference though no amount of skill is really going to save you. As the old saying goes, "God made men. Smith and Wesson made them equal."

    I don't care how good Demetrius Johnson gets there's no way he could ever beat Brock Lesnar even if Lesnar wasn't a great wrestler.

  12. #12
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    I do like the idea of forcing someone back, because if the opponent cannot balance, he cannot generate power in his strike either. You don't always have to strike the opponent straight away, you can do it when he is down or forced into a wall/table/sharp object.

    HOWEVER, these are NOT good clips; if the opponent is half decent in his kicking, striking and moving, you are not going to maintain you power when you crash into his weapons. There's more to forcing the opponent back then crashing into him in a straight line.

    Btw, welcome to the forum Mr. Chan.
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  13. #13
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    I don't know why people post clips like this. I remember the huge hoo-ha with the "Gary Lam incident" which proved nothing other than that everyone involved was an idiot.

    I've heard good things about Shannon Moore, but jeez, carrying that amount of weight just CANNOT be healthy.

    "to even suggest that you have to be 'healthy' to do Martial Arts is almost taking away the original concept of Wing Chun"

    I don't know for sure what the original concept of WC was (you probably don't either), but I don't think it had a lot to do with morbid obesity. I do think a Sifu has to lead by example. Mr Moore may have a condition that doesn't give him the choice, so I'll give him the benefit.
    Last edited by anerlich; 10-01-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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  14. #14
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    To be that fat and to utilize footwork that bad... This guy's a Sifu? By who's standards?

    He just uses his gut to occupy space and press forward. The opponents can't reach him without crosses a bridge of fat. He then leans over his own fat to fall into his opponent while striking.

    One fast kick in the knee and then get out of the way.

    What an embarrassment to martial science.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    I don't know for sure what the original concept of WC was (you probably don't either), but I don't think it had a lot to do with morbid obesity.
    Listen, all I am saying is that you don't have to be healthy to be good at Wing Chun, or to start learning it. It was designed for the average man and woman, according to my learning. It wasn't intended to be an athletic endeavor, but these ideas naturally intersect with the systems development through the men who have had influence on it.

    And I know the difference between just learning as a hobby and throwing yourself deeply into the art itself for your life. Going under the banner of a traditional Sifu is not an easy task, let alone moving on from that and developing as an individual.

    What I see today tends to be people that have picked up tricks from multi-seminars and then teaching it as they please, and that will result in a very basic shadow of what we know Wing Chun to be. Yes, that will work against a hobby dude, just as the clips show, but don't expect to get anywhere against someone that has taken their learning further than a once a week pass time.
    Ti Fei
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